French courts rule that Steam cannot ban resale of 'dematerialised' games

[Brian9824]

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/french-courts-rule-that-steam-cannot-ban-resale-of-dematerialised-games/

Likely to be appealed and if not steam can just ignore it and pay the fine which would only be around $600,000. Will be intresting to see if this triggers any changes and how that would work with regions and publishers who are not located in france.

German Courts disagree with French Courts in their rulings here - https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/10/german-court-rules-against-rights-to-resell-steam-games/

EU Video Game Trade Body also disagree's with France's stance on it - https://www.pcgamesinsider.biz/news/69716/european-video-games-trade-body-says-frances-steam-ruling-flies-in-face-of-eu-law/

[Longhaul]

Steam can do what ever they want...... As for French courts.....lmfao!

[Brian9824]

I highly doubt anything will change. Almost all regions of the world do not allow this, so at most they could implement the feature between 2 french accounts only for instance. Or charge transfer fee's, etc to use the feature.

[Count_Dandyman]

Given German courts already ruled against the resale of games under the same EU rulings that the French are ruling for them with I predict a long battle up the chain before we get a definitive answer.

[Cathulhu]

Additionally, French law can not overrule EU law, which Valve already abides by the letter.
I doubt anything will change.

[cinedine]

Originally posted by Count_Dandyman:

Given German courts already ruled against the resale of games under the same EU rulings that the French are ruling for them with I predict a long battle up the chain before we get a definitive answer.

The gist of the German ruling is that Steam provides services that cannot be transferred. There'd be no problem for them to let you transfer the game license to another account. However, associated service - like using Steam to download the game - are a different issue. Note the subscription part in "Steam Subscription".

[Tito Shivan]

Originally posted by Count_Dandyman:

Given German courts already ruled against the resale of games under the same EU rulings that the French are ruling for them with I predict a long battle up the chain before we get a definitive answer.

The German ruling (I guess you''re talking about the VZVB vs Valve lawsuit) is just a national ruling. It doesn't really create jurisprudence at an European level. Just like the French ruling does.
Unless any of those suits is brought up to the CJEU for them to make a ruling (I.E. Usedsoft vs Oracle) it's not really 'EU Law'

Other than that I'll keep the same advice I've used on similar demands or requests in similar subjects.

Beware what you wish for, because you may get it

Doubt French users will be able to start reselling their games tomorrow but it's certainly a Pandora box of unforeseen consequences.

Originally posted by fauxtronic:

The problem is that it has set a precedent

It's a national court. It doesn't set a precedent at a European level. They'd have to bring the case to higher tribunals to have the CJEU to set a ruling which does set precedent at an EU level.

Originally posted by fauxtronic:

But that presents another problem: By complying with the ruling, they risk losing publishers who don't want their games listed on platforms which allow them to be resold.

They'd be bound by the same ruling regardless. They could try to fight it and force a lawsuit upon them too but once there's a proper ruling on the matter (and unless a superior court overturns it) the lawsuit is on the fast lane for the same ruling.

The lawsuit was against Steam, but every other service (Origin, Epic, Uplay, Google Play, iTunes, W10 Store, BNet, Any developer Storefront...) Would have to follow suit too if asked to on France (or fight a brief lawsuit to have a tribunal force them to comply)

Originally posted by cinedine:

The gist of the German ruling is that Steam provides services that cannot be transferred. There'd be no problem for them to let you transfer the game license to another account. However, associated service - like using Steam to download the game - are a different issue. Note the subscription part in "Steam Subscription".

The lawsuit also was the VZVB requesting Valve to comply following the Usedsoft Vs Oracle ruling. And the tribunals denied it on the grounds that -unlike the EU ruling case- games were not purely 'software' which meant IP protection laws also applied to games unlike proper 'software' (like productivity software) licenses.

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by Tito Shivan:

Originally posted by Count_Dandyman:

Given German courts already ruled against the resale of games under the same EU rulings that the French are ruling for them with I predict a long battle up the chain before we get a definitive answer.

The German ruling (I guess you''re talking about the VZVB vs Valve lawsuit) is just a national ruling. It doesn't really create jurisprudence at an European level. Just like the French ruling does.
Unless any of those suits is brought up to the CJEU for them to make a ruling (I.E. Usedsoft vs Oracle) it's not really 'EU Law'

Other than that I'll keep the same advice I've used on similar demands or requests in similar subjects.

Beware what you wish for, because you may get it

Doubt French users will be able to start reselling their games tomorrow but it's certainly a Pandora box of unforeseen consequences.

Originally posted by fauxtronic:

The problem is that it has set a precedent

It's a national court. It doesn't set a precedent at a European level. They'd have to bring the case to higher tribunals to have the CJEU to set a ruling which does set precedent at an EU level.

Originally posted by fauxtronic:

But that presents another problem: By complying with the ruling, they risk losing publishers who don't want their games listed on platforms which allow them to be resold.

They'd be bound by the same ruling regardless. They could try to fight it and force a lawsuit upon them too but once there's a proper ruling on the matter (and unless a superior court overturns it) the lawsuit is on the fast lane for the same ruling.

The lawsuit was against Steam, but every other service (Origin, Epic, Uplay, Google Play, iTunes, W10 Store, BNet, Any developer Storefront...) Would have to follow suit too if asked to on France (or fight a brief lawsuit to have a tribunal force them to comply)

Yep, im curious to see how this plays out as it seems the ruling has no teeth. They are basically saying comply or pay the maximum fine of $600,000 which would be cheaper then implementing a feature to meet their ruling even if its not appealed.

It's like saying repaint your house because I don't like the color or pay a $20 fine. You'll pay the fine versus the costs of repainting in a heartbeat.

[8ullfrog]

Couldn't they just exit the French market? I understand many US based companies put up blocks to avoid complying with GDPR.

[Nx Machina]

What fascinates me the most is that Steam is a storefront for developers and publishers to sell their games, prices are set by them not Steam.

Therefore the ruling against Steam is at first glance irrelevant as it is the developers, publisher who would need to agree to the resale of their products on the Steam storefront.

[8ullfrog]

I'm guessing the courts ignored that and regarded steam as a Walmart type organization.

[north]

yes!!! this is it bros!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm going to sell all the games I already beat and make a nice profit
epic is FINISHED now we effectively have a used game "trade-in" system

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Originally posted by north:

yes!!! this is it bros!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm going to sell all the games I already beat and make a nice profit
epic is FINISHED now we effectively have a used game "trade-in" system

You may want to hold off on all the excitement for a while.

[Nx Machina]

Originally posted by 8ullfrog:

I'm guessing the courts ignored that and regarded steam as a Walmart type organization.

They also clearly missed or do not understand that you are not selling games as you do not own them. You own a license to access the content you bought.

[NeXuS23]

Originally posted by Kusa:

What fascinates me the most is that Steam is a storefront for developers and publishers to sell their games, prices are set by them not Steam.

Therefore the ruling against Steam is at first glance irrelevant as it is the developers, publisher who would need to agree to the resale of their products on the Steam storefront.

I guess it's because Steam actively prevents it with DRM etc. If you take console retails as an example, the retail stores selling them do not prevent it, no worse they even endorse it and have a resale market in the stores.

Also with digital copies you don't resell the games, but the license you own. There's another case where a court ruled that such software licenses should always be resoldable, but the issue was, that one didn't apply to games. So if France is smart, they perhaps simply should pick up that one again and trying to obtain a new verdict that expands the scope to all digital products including digital games.

[Nx Machina]

Originally posted by NeXuS23:

Originally posted by Kusa:

What fascinates me the most is that Steam is a storefront for developers and publishers to sell their games, prices are set by them not Steam.

Therefore the ruling against Steam is at first glance irrelevant as it is the developers, publisher who would need to agree to the resale of their products on the Steam storefront.

I guess it's because Steam actively prevents it with DRM etc. If you take console retails as an example, the retail stores selling them do not prevent it, no worse they even endorse it and have a resale market in the stores.

Also with digital copies you don't resell the games, but the license you own. There's another case where a court ruled that such software licenses should always be resoldable, but the issue was, that one didn't apply to games. So if France is smart, they perhaps simply should pick up that one again and trying to obtain a new verdict that expands the scope to all digital products including digital games.

Developers, publishers own the games on Steam therefore Steam cannot enforce resale of games or licenses over which they have no direct control. The French courts are beating a dead horse with their stance.