What's the real reason why Estelle and Joshua aren't in CS3?

[Dragon]

The in-game excuse given is that "they were denied entry into Erebonia."

But out of game, in real-life Falcom, must have had different reasons not to write them into the game. What are they?

Is it because they wanted to save their appearance for CS4 in order to guarantee a sales boost for CS4?

But in that case, wouldn't it have made more sense to put them into both CS3 and also CS4 in order to boost the sales of both games?

I'm not seeing Falcom's logic here as to why they excluded them from CS3.

Does anyone have any insight about this matter?

[Koby]

Because Falcom chose to obviously and the in-game reasoning made perfect sense story-wise.

[Dragon]

Originally posted by Koby:

the in-game reasoning made perfect sense story-wise.

I'm sure there must also be a real-life explanation that goes deeper than that.

Falcom could just as easily have wrote the story to be:

"they were allowed entry into Erebonia."

or

"they were initially denied entry into Erebonia but then they went through some hoops and were allowed in" (i.e. Olivert could have granted them permission, or something like that).

or

"they snuck into Erebonia" (i.e. they hid in a crate or something as it went through Customs, or they simply snuck across the border at night, or they used a small airship to be dropped in covertly, etc.).

Yet Falcom didn't write the story to include them even though there are lots of ways how they could have. So it begs the question, why not? What was their motivation not to do so?

[RapidFirE]

It makes sense that they weren't allowed in. Osborne doesn't want them meddling with his plans and the emperor fully trusts his judgement; Olivier has relatively little power to override this. Also they wouldn't sneak in since they're bracers and probably don't want to break laws.

[Koby]

If you actually bothered to play the games you'd know why your alternative suggestions wouldn't work.

Oliver has basically no authority and is in hiding for most of the game. So obviously he wouldn't be able to grant people entry.

There was no need or reason for Falcom to force the two into the game. It's already far longer and far wordier than CS1 & CS2... and the game is about bringing New Class 7 up-to-snuff for the events in the next game which brings all of the past arcs together.

So yes it boils down to nothing more than Falcom chose not to include them for obvious reasons.

Originally posted by RapidFirE:

Also they wouldn't sneak in since they're bracers and probably don't want to break laws.

Exactly. Erebonia is already squashing what little power Bracers have in the country... no reason to give Erebonia a reason to just wipe them out entirely.

[Gianni Tsunami]

Since CS3+CS4 were originally meant to be just one game like CS1+CS2 they likely would have appeared in the original CS3.

[Mistfox]

Originally posted by Gianni Tsunami:

Since CS3+CS4 were originally meant to be just one game like CS1+CS2 they likely would have appeared in the original CS3.

The main character for the CS arc is Rean. There is no reason to add in 2 more ex-"Main Characters" and distract away from the core of the story. If they added in Joshua and Estelle, the most that would do is turn them into a cheerleading squad since 1- you won't get to control them and 2- writers would not want another party to steal the limelight away from the "hero" of this arc.

All this would have done is added in another party to "save" Rean for him to "go ahead" and we already have enough of that with the regular cast.

Not to mention the holes in the story that would cause like Koby and RAPID said.

Did people forget that Estelle and Joshua's "father" is GENERAL Casius Bright, the head of the armed forces of an enemy nation? The number 1 person as to why their first invasion failed, with corresponding loss of Erebonian life? Or that they have already spiked Osborne's plans once before by stopping the 2nd invasion of Liberl? And Joshua has a reputation as Joshua Astray? One of the head assassins of Oroborus? You're going to give someone like him entry into your country? Your country's border security must be pretty lax to let in a known terrorist and assassin willingly.

"I like them therefore they must be in every series" is about as intelligent as saying "I like milk, so milk must be added to all dishes". It is an action taken without consideration as to the appropriateness or suitability to the occasion.

[Kurosu]

If you had bothered to finally play the cold steel games, you would have known.
But as usual dragon created a thread just to complain agaist Falcom

[Wauxx_]

Play the games dragon, you will understand things better.

[Legendary Mr. Tiddles]

All of us here who have played through the game have seen they weren't necessary to the plot, because look: the plot began, it developed, it ended, and neither Estelle or Joshua were in it.

However much staring at this game for 300 hours might have damaged my eyesight, my hindsight is still 20/20.

[Gianni Tsunami]

Originally posted by Mistfox:

Originally posted by Gianni Tsunami:

Since CS3+CS4 were originally meant to be just one game like CS1+CS2 they likely would have appeared in the original CS3.

The main character for the CS arc is Rean. There is no reason to add in 2 more ex-"Main Characters" and distract away from the core of the story. If they added in Joshua and Estelle, the most that would do is turn them into a cheerleading squad since 1- you won't get to control them and 2- writers would not want another party to steal the limelight away from the "hero" of this arc.

All this would have done is added in another party to "save" Rean for him to "go ahead" and we already have enough of that with the regular cast.

Not to mention the holes in the story that would cause like Koby and RAPID said.

Did people forget that Estelle and Joshua's "father" is GENERAL Casius Bright, the head of the armed forces of an enemy nation? The number 1 person as to why their first invasion failed, with corresponding loss of Erebonian life? Or that they have already spiked Osborne's plans once before by stopping the 2nd invasion of Liberl? And Joshua has a reputation as Joshua Astray? One of the head assassins of Oroborus? You're going to give someone like him entry into your country? Your country's border security must be pretty lax to let in a known terrorist and assassin willingly.

"I like them therefore they must be in every series" is about as intelligent as saying "I like milk, so milk must be added to all dishes". It is an action taken without consideration as to the appropriateness or suitability to the occasion.

Not really sure what you are ranting for, all i said was that Estelle and Joshua would have likely appeared in the original CS3 to fill the same role they fill in CS4, since CS3+CS4 were originally just meant to be one game aka CS3. I won't say more in case you are unaware of their role in CS4 but they are in the trailer so it's not a huge spoiler or anything.

[Mistfox]

Originally posted by Gianni Tsunami:

Not really sure what you are ranting for, all i said was that Estelle and Joshua would have likely appeared in the original CS3 to fill the same role they fill in CS4, since CS3+CS4 were originally just meant to be one game aka CS3. I won't say more in case you are unaware of their role in CS4 but they are in the trailer so it's not a huge spoiler or anything.

Your "likely" is simply blind bias. There was absolutely no reason for them storywise to even be in there, literally. The only reason for what you hint is simply cameos, Falcom is just desperately milking that nostalgia cow for everything it is worth. Let me put it this way. If they were totally taken out of the story, would it even change? If not, then they were really irrelevant in the first place.

Look at ALL the posts above you. NOT A SINGLE ONE agrees. Main characters from a different arc should STAY in their arc or it would affect the progress of the main character from this arc, which was why Falcom kept them out until near the end when it would not distract from the CS "main character" any more. Otherwise, Cold Steel would be "The adventures of Joshua and Estelle Bright and some tag along called Rean Schwazer".

[RapidFirE]

Originally posted by Mistfox:

Otherwise, Cold Steel would be "The adventures of Joshua and Estelle Bright and some tag along called Rean Schwazer".

Sounds like an improvement to me ;)

[Gianni Tsunami]

Originally posted by Mistfox:

Originally posted by Gianni Tsunami:

Not really sure what you are ranting for, all i said was that Estelle and Joshua would have likely appeared in the original CS3 to fill the same role they fill in CS4, since CS3+CS4 were originally just meant to be one game aka CS3. I won't say more in case you are unaware of their role in CS4 but they are in the trailer so it's not a huge spoiler or anything.

Your "likely" is simply blind bias. There was absolutely no reason for them storywise to even be in there, literally. The only reason for what you hint is simply cameos, Falcom is just desperately milking that nostalgia cow for everything it is worth. Let me put it this way. If they were totally taken out of the story, would it even change? If not, then they were really irrelevant in the first place.

Look at ALL the posts above you. NOT A SINGLE ONE agrees. Main characters from a different arc should STAY in their arc or it would affect the progress of the main character from this arc, which was why Falcom kept them out until near the end when it would not distract from the CS "main character" any more. Otherwise, Cold Steel would be "The adventures of Joshua and Estelle Bright and some tag along called Rean Schwazer".

You are still ranting for no reason lol. I did not even give an opinion on what you are whining about. Just a guess based off of the fact that CS3+CS4 were originally a single game.

[Mistfox]

Originally posted by Gianni Tsunami:

Originally posted by Mistfox:

Your "likely" is simply blind bias. There was absolutely no reason for them storywise to even be in there, literally. The only reason for what you hint is simply cameos, Falcom is just desperately milking that nostalgia cow for everything it is worth. Let me put it this way. If they were totally taken out of the story, would it even change? If not, then they were really irrelevant in the first place.

Look at ALL the posts above you. NOT A SINGLE ONE agrees. Main characters from a different arc should STAY in their arc or it would affect the progress of the main character from this arc, which was why Falcom kept them out until near the end when it would not distract from the CS "main character" any more. Otherwise, Cold Steel would be "The adventures of Joshua and Estelle Bright and some tag along called Rean Schwazer".

You are still ranting for no reason lol. I did not even give an opinion on what you are whining about. Just a guess based off of the fact that CS3+CS4 were originally a single game.

Let us just put it this way. Dragon has a very bad reputation here, he has been "suggesting" storylines that are quite frankly his wish fulfillment and have very little to do with logic, background or coherency. This is just another one of it that you fell into.

Notice how every one else's response was "go play the game Dragon"? He's an old poster here, one which a lot of us know a bit too well.

[RDG]

Originally posted by Dragon:

wouldn't it have made more sense to put them into both CS3 and also CS4 in order to boost the sales of both games?

No, sometimes more is less. It could hurt the story overall because you would need to use resources meant for the main story that would have little to do with the current story, also not everyone is a fan of Estelle's, to me it was just another arc, I thought Zero had a much more likeable cast for example. Still I am not crying I don't get to play Rixia.

Would some people boost their own sales by making their product garbage because they decided to put in too much with not enough resources? Sure, it happens all the time. Thankfully not here.