The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel III

The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel III

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I do not understand Vantage Masters.
This game is the bane of my existence as a completionist. I want to play it, I want to master it, but I've never been good at strategy. Even on Very Easy mode, I couldn't beat anyone my first playthrough, not even that little kid at the beginning! I was able to beat him this time, though. I think I understand the game a wee bit better. Part of my problem was that I was wasting my time attacking other cards when I should have focused everything on attacking the Master.

But I still don't understand how the thing works. It seems like my opponent is always able to draw more Natials and get more attacks in than me. How is that possible? Am I misusing my cards?

And should I take on every character as soon as possible, or are there some--like Rachel--I should save until after I've obtained certain cards? What are the most useful cards, and what, if any, should I forget about?

I was really down last time I looked for threads about this game, because there were people saying you have to try to lose, it's that easy. Stuff like that always bothered me, you know? Like, what's easy for one person isn't easy for everybody.

So I'm asking--what's some good advice you have for newbies when it comes to this game?
Last edited by rachaellikesblue; Apr 20, 2020 @ 8:57pm
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Showing 1-15 of 37 comments
Mr.Mostache Apr 20, 2020 @ 8:59pm 
You should battle people as soon as you are able to.

Since you are at the start, I recommend putting your Fighter Master Card on the front and buff it with Magic Crystals.

One of the best cards is the Fire card that can attack from a range (has a bow symbol). Use it to attack the opponent's Master safely.
Koby Apr 20, 2020 @ 9:35pm 
I've never lost a Vantage Masters game so I'm not sure what the problem could be.

Definitely challenge everyone as soon as you can.

Swapping out cards as you get them is good. Some can be bought in the store, so do that. Sister I think comes from the store and it's one of the best Masters to use.

Early on, buffing Blyx (the ranged fire natial) who can attack from the back row is your best option. Keep natials on the front line and your master on the backline so it can't be attacked except by other natials with range... and take those out.
butterbattle22 Apr 20, 2020 @ 9:40pm 
I don't know if the difficulty makes any difference on this card game, but I won every fight on nightmare. I even won that super unfair fight against Rutger, although I got sorta lucky.

Since you haven't really explained what you're stuck on or even what cards you're using, it's kinda difficult for us to identify what you're doing wrong. Post a screenshot of a deck you're using or something. That should clear it up pretty quick.

As for your specific mention of "draw more natials" and "get more attacks," The only thing I can think of is that a thief can perform two actions each turn as well as spend mana to draw a card. That makes the first fight against him super annoying, but the mechanics are pretty obvious. It's written on the card.

I suppose if you're just starting off, I recommend the archer since it's safer, more conservative play. Limit your other ranged natials to like 1 or 2 cards and keep you archer on the back rank. Bring a couple buff cards and use them all on the archer whenever you get one. I like those +1/+1 early game since they also give you one mana or whatever. The rest should all be melee natials. Put them on the front to tank for your archer. Attack enemy natials with your archer every turn, then attack the enemy master when they're out of natials or the master is low on health. You should win almost every battle in the first half of the game pretty easily. This is a gross oversimplification, but if you're struggling with regular fights, it should help.

Later on, you can pay attention to type advantages and look at other strategies. Oh yeah, and seal becomes pretty overpowered. In the second half of the game, some of my matches were just me sealing them until they died.

I played the Sister quite a bit even though I don't think she's that strong. I think it's probably just cause I like playing healers in RPGs.

Part of my problem was that I was wasting my time attacking other cards when I should have focused everything on attacking the Master.

No, that's not right either. You have to find the right balance. If you can burst the master down, then you should attack the master. If you do this too early, you'll be overwhelmed by enemy natials instead. In the beginning, you should be prioritizing control of the board.
Last edited by butterbattle22; Apr 20, 2020 @ 9:41pm
PhantomMaster18 Apr 20, 2020 @ 10:43pm 
You just fight every person available whenever you play Vantage

If you want a good combo, Blyx and Blaze (1 or 2 stacks) makes for a good attacker without risk of getting countered most of the time. Stack a bunch of the water element 1 mana summon natials for free draws until you get better cards.

Pay attention to the element weaknesses on the left side of the screen and use them to get extra damage while saving your card hp.

It's a good to keep an eye out for vantage masters opponents, because each opponent gives you a free card when you beat them, and there are a few opponents that pop up each chapter.

and collecting them all, including the buyable cards in the department stores, allows you to fight a final opponent for a chance at a Master Quartz
Last edited by PhantomMaster18; Apr 20, 2020 @ 10:43pm
rachaellikesblue Apr 21, 2020 @ 4:52am 
Thanks guys, but you've got me feeling like an idiot, because I'm already losing to Rachel. I don't even know how to explain that she's got more mana than me right from the beginning. It seems like she has an unfair advantage and can use more cards right from the get-go, regardless of who goes first.

People keep talking about an Archer, but I have no idea where to get those. I also think it's crazy that you can't use any of your Natials until the second turn they're on the board. For a while, I do well, but after a while, she begins to attack all my Natials before I can even use them, and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.

I have the "default" set of cards. I've bought all the ones that are available for purchase--Marme, Transmute, Sister, and one other that's available right now at Carnegie, I can't remember what it is. I also have the three Magic Crystals that I won from the first opponent.

I don't do well when there's an infinite number of possibilities; you can think of me as similar to Altina if that helps. I'm always second-guessing myself, because there's no *objectively* correct thing to do in any given situation. It feels like I'm the only person who struggles with this (as in, Vantage Masters), and it's very frustrating. I'm even having trouble understanding the instructions in this thread.

I should keep my Master in the back? But it can't attack then, can it?
Koby Apr 21, 2020 @ 4:57am 
Originally posted by rachaellikesblue:
Thanks guys, but you've got me feeling like an idiot, because I'm already losing to Rachel. I don't even know how to explain that she's got more mana than me right from the beginning. It seems like she has an unfair advantage and can use more cards right from the get-go, regardless of who goes first.

People keep talking about an Archer, but I have no idea where to get those. I also think it's crazy that you can't use any of your Natials until the second turn they're on the board. For a while, I do well, but after a while, she begins to attack all my Natials before I can even use them, and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.

I have the "default" set of cards. I've bought all the ones that are available for purchase--Marme, Transmute, Sister, and one other that's available right now at Carnegie, I can't remember what it is. I also have the three Magic Crystals that I won from the first opponent.

I don't do well when there's an infinite number of possibilities; you can think of me as similar to Altina if that helps. I'm always second-guessing myself, because there's no *objectively* correct thing to do in any given situation. It feels like I'm the only person who struggles with this (as in, Vantage Masters), and it's very frustrating. I'm even having trouble understanding the instructions in this thread.

I should keep my Master in the back? But it can't attack then, can it?
Archers are those with a bow on the left side of their card. Blyx is one of the early archers and going to be your strongest attacker in Chapter 1.

As for attacking on the first turn, use one of the natials with the wing icon. Pretty much all the Heavenly (white background) Natials can attack on the turn they're summoned (thing is you don't get a strong Heavenly Natial in terms of attacking until like late Chapter 2 or early Chapter 3).

As for mana pools, using the Sister Master gives you more mana per turn to get started with.

Basically quick early strategy is to use Sister Master, stack your deck with Blyx, Magic Crystals, and the Blaze card (gives +3 attack to Fire Natials). Then just keep your weak cards up front while having Blyx attack from the backrow.

No need to attack with your Master. The attack is weak and it opens you up for being defeated. If you want to attack with your Master wait till later in the game and use the Knight Master. For now, just have Sisters use the skill to boost HP of your cards in order to keep them alive (mainly either Blyx or itself) if you have spare mana to use for the turn.

Using Sisters + power boosting Blyx will be the main strategy you use through the first two chapters of the game against every opponent.
Last edited by Koby; Apr 21, 2020 @ 5:01am
rachaellikesblue Apr 21, 2020 @ 5:02am 
Thank you! And that post opens up to me feeling less frustrated and appreciating everyone else's input. My apologies for getting frustrated. Hopefully, I'll get better at this, and won't need to ask for help anymore.
Mistfox Apr 21, 2020 @ 6:23am 
Originally posted by rachaellikesblue:
Thank you! And that post opens up to me feeling less frustrated and appreciating everyone else's input. My apologies for getting frustrated. Hopefully, I'll get better at this, and won't need to ask for help anymore.

The more mana thing can be due to the Mana crystals card or on the board, every one of them gives +1 mana and it carries over to all the subsequent turns. For example (example only), you have 1 mana in turn 1, the next turn you should have 2 mana (1+1) but if you used a Mana crystal card, you get 3 (1+1+1 more from the crystal) so dumping crystal cards fast and early gets you a huge mana lead.

You need to be calculative playing the game, sometimes, just because you can attack does not mean you should. Like the Pelitt card that people were talking about that can attack on the turn it deploys. If you need it to defend, it is best NOT to attack and force your enemy to waste one move killing it. The best "defender" I find is the Requ. Sure, it dies easily but when it dies, it adds one more card to your hand, potentially replacing its loss. So if you got a huge mana pool, in theory, even when it dies, his replacement blocker is going to come out the next turn, so no net loss in natials in the field.

Oh yes, and when you look up a Master card in your notebook, the green circle on the top right is how much mana they start with.
Last edited by Mistfox; Apr 21, 2020 @ 6:31am
butterbattle22 Apr 21, 2020 @ 6:43am 
Originally posted by rachaellikesblue:
I don't even know how to explain that she's got more mana than me right from the beginning. It seems like she has an unfair advantage and can use more cards right from the get-go, regardless of who goes first.

See, this is the problem again. If you can't even explain what is happening, it's hard for us to help you. Post a picture of what is happening. Or at least be more specific.

There is no RNG in the amount of mana generated. It is based on your master, the turn count, and the specific cards that are played. If she is using more cards, then they are probably cheaper. Look at the number on the card. That tells you the number of mana required. The amount of mana both you and your opponent currently have is also clearly displayed.

People keep talking about an Archer, but I have no idea where to get those.

Ah, if you don't have it, it's probably a reward from one of the early wins.

That's fine. Sitting your sister on the back rank is pretty effective too. Just don't use your buffs on her in that case.

I also think it's crazy that you can't use any of your Natials until the second turn they're on the board.

Not only is that not crazy, that is normal in these types of card games. You're clearly not familiar with these types of games, so you'll just have to take our word for it. Always summoning and attacking on the same turn is too easily abused; it would be toxic and completely break the game. There are already specific cards that allow this, so all of those would have to be changed for balance and redundancy as well. Furthermore, giving a turn of delay promotes more interaction and tactics on the board, which makes it a deeper game.

The AI is subject to the same constraint, so it's not like you have a disadvantage there.

For a while, I do well, but after a while, she begins to attack all my Natials before I can even use them, and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.

Your statement is just not even coherent.

If you are "doing well," that means you have pieces on the board and are in control. How can she then "begins to attack all of my natials before I can even use them?" That implies that you didn't have active natials. And if you didn't have active natials, then you were not doing well.

I should keep my Master in the back? But it can't attack then, can it?

*sigh* Okay, two things.

First, as already explained, some cards can attack from the back rank. If I remember correctly, all of those cards have a "bow" icon on the card. Obviously, the archer is one of those.

Second, if you lose your master, you lose. Your master is doing damage on the front, but it's also taking damage. Whether it should be on the front or back is a balancing act determined by whether you think it will hurt the enemy more or you'll be hurt more. There are numerous situations and reasons why you might move/keep your master to the back rank even when it's melee:

- Your master is about to die, so you move it back and let natials tank in the front row.
- You have enough natials to fill the front row, so you move your master to the back so the natials take damage first.
- Your opponents master has significantly more attack than yours. Attacking it would do more damage to your own master anyways.
- Your master has a skill and low stats. Perfect example, if you're playing as Sister against the Fighter, you should be on the back row a lot if not all of the time. Why? Because the fighter has more hp and does extra damage. Unless your Sister is buffed way more, any interaction between the two masters is gonna be a loss. The Sister's strength is in increasing hp, so the best strategy is to sit on the back rank most of the time and wear the Fighter out with buffed up natials.
- Etc. etc.
Last edited by butterbattle22; Apr 21, 2020 @ 6:48am
rachaellikesblue Apr 21, 2020 @ 10:35am 
Originally posted by butterbattle22:
See, this is the problem again. If you can't even explain what is happening, it's hard for us to help you. Post a picture of what is happening. Or at least be more specific.

Yeah, if I have trouble again, I'll take some screenshots. Although if I still can't beat her, I don't know, I'd feel like I had to screenshot the whole damn match.

Thanks for your advice as well. I have several different strategies I can try now. And you're right, I'm not familiar at all with these sorts of games. I had no idea that it's standard for being unable to act on the first turn.
Mistfox Apr 21, 2020 @ 10:43am 
Originally posted by rachaellikesblue:
I had no idea that it's standard for being unable to act on the first turn.
It's been standard since Magic The Gathering in 1993, so about 27 years now.
rachaellikesblue Apr 21, 2020 @ 11:06am 
And? I've never been even a little interested in trading card games. It's not like I've been living under a rock or anything.
rachaellikesblue Apr 21, 2020 @ 11:23am 
I did it! I beat Rachel!

I think I'm actually starting to understand this game. Another mistake I was making was using as many cards as possible within each round, instead of thinking about which ones would actually help. The fact that the game shows you how much damage you'll do versus how much damage you'll take in the counter attack, as well as what the elemental strengths/weaknesses are, is really helpful.

Thank you, all of you, for your help. Sorry if I got kind of snippy; I was feeling self-conscious, and that made me defensive.

This board is a lot nicer than some of the other gaming boards out there.
Carl Johnson Apr 21, 2020 @ 3:26pm 
summon the fire archers in the backline and protect them with your master, the game is very easy because the AI is very dumb.
Last edited by Carl Johnson; Apr 21, 2020 @ 3:26pm
rachaellikesblue Apr 21, 2020 @ 5:08pm 
Oh, I have another question. Is there any point to re-challenging anyone after you've beat them once?
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Date Posted: Apr 20, 2020 @ 8:18pm
Posts: 37