Expulsion and Wand Destruction?

[GrandMajora]

Okay, so upon retrospect, I've got to ask what the point is of destroying a student's wand in the event they get expelled from school? We know that witches and wizards have the capacity to use magic without one, and they also have the capacity to acquire replacements. As we saw with Harry, Ron and Voldemort all getting new wands over the course of the story.

If anything, breaking the student's wand after kicking them out of school seems like nothing more than a petty insult, rather than an honest attempt to stop them from casting magic ever again.

[Anvos]

One would assume being expelled also comes with going on a black list that reputable wand craftsmen and dealers aren't supposed to sell to, and everywhere besides Africa there is major social stigma for being a wandless wizard. Hell in Japan your robes also turn a specific shame color for everybody to see. Plus unless you were a student of the African continent school (who wouldn't have a wand in the first place) training to do magic proficiently without a focus item like a wand, would be something you weren't ever trained in, since outside Africa its considered an advanced art , similar to mental casting. Though I think the rest of the world, outside Africa, also argues that doing magic without a focus like a wand, actually limits your potential even if your proficient in it.

One would also assume a lot of expulsions who aren't part magical creature, probably also get their mind wiped.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Anvos:

One would also assume a lot of expulsions who aren't part magical creature, probably also get their mind wiped.

I doubt that. The books made it pretty clear that Harry was doing magic related feats long before Hagrid came to visit, and he was doing them subconsciously, with no training or knowledge of magic's existence.

Voldemort too, actually. He had already figured out how to set things on fire, and control people's minds without ever having touched a wand.

Giving these people a memory wipe and sending them back into the muggle world, while just assuming that everything turns out fine would be a display of gross negligence on the wizarding world's part.

[WeissRook]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Anvos:

One would also assume a lot of expulsions who aren't part magical creature, probably also get their mind wiped.

I doubt that. The books made it pretty clear that Harry was doing magic related feats long before Hagrid came to visit, and he was doing them subconsciously, with no training or knowledge of magic's existence.

Voldemort too, actually. He had already figured out how to set things on fire, and control people's minds without ever having touched a wand.

Giving these people a memory wipe and sending them back into the muggle world, while just assuming that everything turns out fine would be a display of gross negligence on the wizarding world's part.

To be fair, Harry's case is special since he was Voldemort's horcrux. In fact, a lot of his latent talents that you're describing came specifically from Voldemort. And I doubt that Voldemort is a common case, since he was shown to be extremely gifted, in both the ability to learn as well as the power level he had.

[Anvos]

Fairly sure Voldermort wouldn't have gotten off as easy as Hagrid as they thought Hagrid was just a reckless idiot who brought a dangerous creature to school and then released it instead of handing it over. Voldermort was actually commanding the basilisk to kill, until he realized "woops they might close the school over this". For Voldermort its probably off to wizard jail.

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Voldermort and Harry are also exceptional cases. Most wizards if you took their knowledge of magic and they thought there were just some bloke or gal who got put in a comma by a reckless driver, wouldn't instinctively do anything that spectacular. Most first generations only know their a wizard when somebody shows up and tells them, we never heard any stories of Hermoine doing anything on par with what Harry or Voldermort did, instinctively. Also keep in mind while Lily was a first Gen and Voldermort's Father was a muggle, both their other parents were from pedigreed lines of mages.

[Amazingly Randy]

Breaking their wand, gets them to go out and enjoy life. Bar hop, some T and A..

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Anvos:

Also keep in mind while Lily was a first Gen and Voldermort's Father was a muggle, both their other parents were from pedigreed lines of mages.

The whole pedigree thing is bull crap, though. It's been revealed that the ability to wield magic is keyed to somebody's genetics, rather than their bloodline. It doesn't matter if you're pure, half or mud blood, all witches and wizards have the same genetic potential to achieve greatness in the world of magic.

The only reason the wizarding world is convinced otherwise, is because they're been isolated from muggles for so long, that they are completely in the dark about modern medical discoveries.

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Edit: One theory suggests that Squibs are people for whom the magic gene became recessive, and that muggle born witches and wizards are actually descendants of those who chose to integrate with the muggle world. Their dormant genes resurfacing many generations later.

[DeadPossum]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

The whole pedigree thing is bull crap, though. It's been revealed that the ability to wield magic is keyed to somebody's genetics, rather than their bloodline.

Genetics and bloodline go hand in hand. You get yours from your parents and they got theirs from theirs.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by DeadPossum:

Genetics and bloodline go hand in hand. You get yours from your parents and they got theirs from theirs.

Right, but selective breeding doesn't make one's ability to wield magic any stronger than it makes somebody's eyes greener.

I know Voldemort is hyped up for being a direct descendant of Slytherin himself, but it's not like the founders of Hogwarts were demigods or something. They were just four highly skilled witches and wizards who decided to open a school for magic.

[Anvos]

Deadpossum pretty much summarized what I was going to respond with, the pedigree matters due to the genetics. This then stacks the magical potential deck in favor of people who that trait is already present and gives those traits further chances to develop. Ironically it can also develop negatively, but the negative adaptations would be the ones you don't focus on continuing, ie squibs.


Using your eye color example, a bunch of green eyed people breeding together does very well increase the chances that they develop rare or new shades of green eye color.

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It doesn't mean first generations or less obsessive multi generation mage families, can't produce quality mages that are above average magical potential, but the pure blood obsessives do have the genetics (save any inbreeding issues) stacked in their favor. Magic isn't a pure, on/off, skill based trait, especially with commanding grand spells.

Thus Tom and Harry need to be taken as the high end of the spectrum of mage, for what magic one can accidentally use.

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Though there is the whole different issue that if you come from an established wizarding family, it would be far easier to exploit the bureaucracy and nepotism inherent in the Ministry and not be expelled in the first place. Thus most people who have enough magic it could be noticeable if they were sent off believing they were a normal person would be a even small percent and even if such did do something their family couldn't get them out of, they'd still be inclined to make sure their expelled family member didn't cause problems, to decrease their shame over producing a failure of a wizard.