Why are we FORCED to use "they/them" pronouns?

[Fomin]

There isn't anything wrong with including "they/them" pronouns as an option. However, there is something definitely wrong with making that the ONLY option.

Doing this in a game set more than a century ago makes it even worse because no one talked like that then. Even people who had preferences/identities that would have been compatible with such pronouns then would have used "he" or "she".

Simply including "they/them" as an option would be fine but actually EXCLUDING traditional pronouns is not.

Most trans people prefer "she/her" or "he/him" so making everyone "they/them", while it is nice for non-binary people, isn't inclusive for most trans OR cisgender people.

"Most trans women will use female pronouns (she / her) and most trans men will use male pronouns (he / him)."

https://www.scottishtrans.org/trans-equality/use-of-pronouns/

[BelAmata]

引用自 Fomin：

There isn't anything wrong with including "they/them" pronouns as an option. However, there is something definitely wrong with making that the ONLY option.

Doing this in a game set more than a century ago makes it even worse because no one talked like that then. Even people who had preferences/identities that would have been compatible with such pronouns then would have used "he" or "she".

Simply including "they/them" as an option would be fine but actually EXCLUDING traditional pronouns is not.

They/Them has been used since the 14th century

[peremptor]

So what we only catering to multiple personality disorder gamers nowadays? What if you are just a single unfragmented personality?

[GorishiDan]

引用自 Pink Zeppelin：

引用自 GorishiDan：

interesting. i most likely also have it for my native language but i aint changing it from english tho lol

I know that feeling. I started playing in English for immersion, but I switched to German when I got annoyed with the weird 'they/them' only pronouns for the main character and only the main character. It broke immersion enough that the game being in German was better.

i dont mind much the pronoun thing but i do mind how the game's story can only go one way. like, no matter what you do you'll always be seen as good. you can't be evil besides a few rude remarks in dialogue. i feel bad for all the slytherin mains out there lol

[Lord Lurk]

引用自 Umakurokoto：

引用自 Pink Zeppelin：

The third person plural's usage as a singular has been an on and off again matter. While there is evidence to support it dating back to the Late Sixteenth Century, it is not the most common thing and the usage currently being used of exclusively using the third person plural as a third person neuter is unusual. Jane Austen and Shakespeare both used it in conjunction with the third person masculine and feminine. Traditional pronoun usage would be third person plural usage rarely if at all for singular with third person masculine and feminine being used as appropriate.

Not only is it fine, but it's basically been in continual use for close to 1,000 years, both widespread colloquially and in more formalized written texts. There are a few who get upset, the few who get upset, however, do not determine language use.

https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

While this is a good jumping off point, it should be noted that this is nothing more an an opinion piece, and the website even states so at the bottom...so if you were hoping it had some sort of backing by a major institution, I'd look for more sources to use with this.

"The opinions and other information contained in the OED blog posts and comments do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of Oxford University Press."

[The Minted Lady]

Y'know, I keep seeing these posts about the theythem usage and I have to wonder how many times it comes up in the game. In my current 11 hours, it only came up once and it was so long ago, I couldn't even tell you during what scene. So far I haven't heard anyone else speak that way.

[Huntard]

引用自 Pink Zeppelin：

引用自 Jeremy Potter：

I wanted to play in English for immersion too but when I saw that there was their American delirium with their political agenda to not offend the degenerate i starting play in french instead

I wish there was a way to choose voices and display language separately, like in Kingdom Come and other games. I would prefer if my U.I. and such was in German with German subtitles, but English voices.

that I saw on French forums that there was a way to play in VO but have the interface in another language

I believe there is a guide on steam for the game by the way.

[SolviteSekai]

引用自 Ceriss：

引用自 FRISH：

Nothing stopping trans people from existing peacefully. If they antagonise others, then just as with everyone else, of course some people are going to have some words to say. The main difference is that everyone else doesn't get mass protections towards their feelings. It's not a "hate crime" to "attack" most of us.

Dude have you read these forums?
Yeah how dare those awful trans people ask for SPECIAL treatment and BURN DOWN TARGET things they disagree with! They deserve the vitriol they get in here cause of that.

As usual Frish you are completely divorced from logic and reason. If these posts were about your race/gender/orientation, you'd be up in arms. But of course if LBGT people BURN DOWN TARGET, that's naughty! Nonono dirty dogs musn't fight the oppressors right?

And please use your brain. It definitely is a hate crime to attack someone for their race. If someone killed a white person and they WONT be proven to have done it for racially motivated reasons, then they WONT be tried for a hate crime.
The problem? This doesn't happen in any statistically reasonable amount.

Fixed

[Broso]

引用自 Umakurokoto：

引用自 Pink Zeppelin：

The third person plural's usage as a singular has been an on and off again matter. While there is evidence to support it dating back to the Late Sixteenth Century, it is not the most common thing and the usage currently being used of exclusively using the third person plural as a third person neuter is unusual. Jane Austen and Shakespeare both used it in conjunction with the third person masculine and feminine. Traditional pronoun usage would be third person plural usage rarely if at all for singular with third person masculine and feminine being used as appropriate.

Not only is it fine, but it's basically been in continual use for close to 1,000 years, both widespread colloquially and in more formalized written texts. There are a few who get upset, the few who get upset, however, do not determine language use.

https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

Still missing the point that it isn't common to use that pronoun for one single character only.

[Lord Lurk]

引用自 Hiroki Etsuko：

引用自 Lord Lurk：

*snip cause screw large walls of text*

It's Harry Potter and Warner Bros. They totally could pay for it (specially since VAs don't earn much anyway). But, in my opinion english is enough. In some languages it's really hard to implement.

Friend, I think you really need to sit down and talk to a few people who speak other languages as their native language. It'll certainly broaden your horizons.

A lot of languages default to masculine 'he' as the gender neutral choice when it comes to those situations, and it's 100% natural and fitting to for their languages. Shoot, a good bit of the English language does it too...like human. It's not as hard as you think it is to accomplish, sorry.

[AfricanDewLeaf]

引用自 Ceriss：

In the words of your people.

Lmao stay salty snowflake :DMCJester1:

Dude, you're going against your own narrative though of acknowledging someone's preferred pronouns. So you're against someone's ability to choose their pronouns? Wooooooow dude. Bigot? Wow dude. Wow.

[DeadSlash]

引用自 Fomin：

Why are we FORCED to use "they/them" pronouns?.

Because budget. They didn't record she/him he/her lines.

[Pink Zeppelin]

引用自 Umakurokoto：

引用自 Pink Zeppelin：

The third person plural's usage as a singular has been an on and off again matter. While there is evidence to support it dating back to the Late Sixteenth Century, it is not the most common thing and the usage currently being used of exclusively using the third person plural as a third person neuter is unusual. Jane Austen and Shakespeare both used it in conjunction with the third person masculine and feminine. Traditional pronoun usage would be third person plural usage rarely if at all for singular with third person masculine and feminine being used as appropriate.

Not only is it fine, but it's basically been in continual use for close to 1,000 years, both widespread colloquially and in more formalized written texts. There are a few who get upset, the few who get upset, however, do not determine language use.

https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

'Each man hurried . . . till they drew near . . . where William and his darling were lying together.', so... Your source is treating this as singular usage where the excerpt they provided seems to indicate traditional plural usage. Middle English is not my strong suit, but using my knowledge of both modern English and Old English as well as the translation they provided, that excerpt from 1375 appears to use 'they' to refer to a collection of men, hence 'each man hurried' rather than 'the man hurried' or 'a man hurried'. This usage can only be regarded liberally as borderline singular given the context. Likewise, the point on singular 'you' is rather ill made, as the plural/polite singular is something older than Rome and is related to class and power differences. We are not entirely sure if it came about through a merger of the polite form with the plural form or if it was through lords and such being viewed as greater than one man or a host of other theories.

Also, do note that this is not a study, it is a blog post. One which only provides one quote from under seven-hundred years ago, not a thousand as you said, and said quote is not exactly a good example either. This is not getting into the fact that incorrect usage is not a new thing and could be attributed to authors of the past, but that is less of a clear argument as to be frank, English is a mess. Regardless, see the first paragraph for my response.

Edit: Also, note that in the blog, it mentions that there has been disagreement and that style guides do in fact prohibit it.

[Kira]

It's weird isn't it...

[Doug_Dimmadome]

引用自 Ceriss：

引用自 FRISH：

Yes I have read these forums. People are mean. I've had people elsewhere who act morally superior wish me harm or dead, but in the end there's no actual harm. Anyone can stand up for themselves, but when you end up being abusive and then act like others can't defend themselves, then you're not really just trying to live peacefully are you? Those are the types of people most people have issues with. If people that did that weren't trans, a lot of the people would have the same issues against them. Not to mention that people are anonymous online. If people know you're trans, that's from your own admission.

You're not defending yourself. Again, I've already shown you the science and you disagreed, with SCIENCE. That's not defending yourself anymore at that point, it's called stone walling.
The truth is not something you want to accept. We already know this. I went over all of the facts with you. If you don't accept science, or only the science you like, then that's a flaw in your logic and I have no power to fix it, only to point it out to you and I've already done it ad nauseam.

And no, the vile things some people have said here about trans people is not defending themselves either. If they wanted to defend themselves, they'd march their lazy butts to twitter and go directly to the source of their woe. Instead, they're posting it here to circle jerk.

I would love to live peacefully, I'll stop debating when people stop trashing groups of people for harmless characteristics. Oh and, I wouldn't need to say I was trans, the hateful posts where here before any trans person responded to them.

I don't really know what to say to you anymore man. I've tried with you but you've made yourself your own authority of information, and you're not willing to fact check yourself.
I can't help someone who doesn't know how to ascertain the truth.

L-O-L.

[Broso]

引用自 Ceriss：

引用自 Broso：

Still missing the point that it isn't common to use that pronoun for one single character only.

"Where's Johhny?"

"They went over there to fetch the ball."

"Oh! There they are!"

C'mon dude.

No, you're not getting it. In this case, there wouldn't just be a person called Johnny. There would also be a Timmy who would be referred to by "he/him" and a Tammy who would be referred to by "she/her" while only Johnny would be referred to by "they/them" without having been given a choice.