PvP Balance feedback

[DL]

Hi. I'm a player of Grand Chase since 2007, I focus solely on PVP for 15 years, maining Elesis Spearman. I have a channel named SpearDojo on Youtube where my main focus is to teach PvP of Grand Chase and record very in-depth explanations of how Grand Chase works and how to improve as a PVP player.

With extremely sad emotions right now, I came here to tell KOG that this balance was the worst change in Grand Chase Classic since release. So misguided, unnecessary changes. So bad that I'll quit the game right now.

As a last endeavor towards good PVP experience on Grand Chase Classic server, here is my feedback.

There was only one good change on the patch, and it was the Status balance. To be more specific, HP regeneration % cap was top priority of us, pvp players. Nobody asked for Knockdown system or PVE damages on PvP, we asked for localized servers and proper stat balance. HP Regen and HP recovery skills and effects at all was a major problem on PvP, and it got properly adressed. That was a good decision, and unfortunately the unique good decision of the entire patch. Everything else is just misguided, unnecessary dumpsterfire.
Now, for the Knockdown system. This is completely unnecessary and nobody ever asked for that. This system obviously comes from Elsword, a similar game to Grand Chase made by Kog themselves, however, the Knockdown system can't be simply copy-pasted into Grand Chase and call it a day.

Elsword was designed from the ground up to have a Knockdown system. Grand chase was not.

Grand Chase already have plenty of mechanisms to allow players break free from long, infite combos. That is the MP counter. What makes PVP so good on Grand Chase is the decision making of using your MP to be agressive, commiting risks at trying to land a powerfull skill on the enemy, or, using your MP defensively as gaining invencibility to dodge an upcomming skill, or, using your MP to Counter any combo you're receiving.

Also, Grand Chase already have a fast 1st bar MP recovery, in fact, the first bar of MP recovers 3x times faster than 2nd, 3rd and 4th bar. That was made to allow defensive usage of MP Counter a lot more frequent.

So, in reality, it's very common to break combos with MP Counter or Defensive 1 bar skill usage for invencibility. If a player is caught on a combo without MP to counter, that means the player did a mistake and he/she MUST be punished by doing mistakes.

That's what happens in any proper fighting game since forever! To be more specific, this is what happens since Capcom's Street Fighter 2 made the Fighting Game genre what it is today.

Since Street Fighter 2, actually landing a long combo on a mistake on the oponent is what made the game so successful, and, doing so is so hard that the game AWARDS the player who landed the combo by applying a stun on the enemy, so he can finished off with a free, new combo.
So, ALL proper competitive fighting games PUNISHES EVEN MORE players that did mistakes and received long combos. What on EARTH is this Knockdown system that PUNISHES good players and awards bad players that played poorly and got caught without MP? Thats the Knockdown system. This is absurd.

Now the damage balance is the worst thing of all. First, there wasn't a balance. It was just PVE damage values being applied to PVP.

What on earth is this Spearman combo on PVP? Who in their minds thinks it's a good decision to make ONLY HER FIRST HIT to deal 200 HP damage, and everyhing else on her combo just 50 HP damage? Heck, what kind of design is that?

Grand Chase Classic PVP was FINE! Actually pretty well balanced untill now. It was not perfect, we needed HP Regen stat balance and Brazilian, Corean and NA local servers for pvp relay, yet, we got random, arbirtraty changes that is mostly the removal of specific pvp damage values to be the same of pve.

Signing off, Luiz Henrique.

[76561199246978010]

I agree with everything you mentioned, including points that I mentioned earlier giving my feedback, like that Knockdown system benefits ranged characters and new players with a plus: after so many nerfs in advanced moves (post season eternal, and most were good, like the nerf in the delay cancel of AP characters), little chance was left for meele characters to properly catch the enemy now.

But unfortunately someone always appears pulling unnecessary fights to defend KoG and defaming using standard fallacies, accusing everyone who disagrees "does not play pvp"

[76561199045433315]

Então, DL... Parece que o mundo dá voltas. Quando alguém criticava o jogo sobre algo que não estava contente, você simplesmente falava: "Não tá feliz? Volta pro pirata! Chora mais, vaza daqui!"

Agora parece que chegou a sua vez de chorar e largar o barco.

[76561199248071936]

O motivo do choro dele é que ele só usa a Elesis e ela foi nerfada. Mas se você for realmente bom, continuará ganhando partidas PvP.

[A. Faria]

Originally posted by Avavago:

O motivo do choro dele é que ele só usa a Elesis e ela foi nerfada. Mas se você for realmente bom, continuará ganhando partidas PvP.

Eu tbm acho q foi mais por isso, porque no geral esse sistema foi bem irrelevante em alto nível. Não impactou o suficiente pra tanto alarde. Na verdade, é um sistema até bom pra evitar composições tóxicas e ser mais agradável pra players novos.

[DougFunny]

I have to agree with DL on this one, this balance made annoying jobs even more annoying and everything else weaker.
it's almost like they don't even tested things

[Leyfon]

I never played PvP in this game, but i have trust in this post, it's clear you are a PvP expert

I'm really sorry KoG made another bad decision, now even who loved PvP will quit

First harrier res ( same as adaption in elsword ). now PvP system like Elsword.

They really want to copy paste all from that game i guess :\ sad

[lGouldingl]

Nerfaram a nevasca da feiticeira em um nível ridículo.

[LightningThe13th]

Originally posted by lGouldingl:

Nerfaram a nevasca da feiticeira em um nível ridículo.

Nevasca, Chuva de Meteoros, Zero Absoluto... Todas as 3ª skills que dão dano em área gigante dão cerca de 200 de dano agora, quase 1/10 do dano original, sem condições.
Não sei o que a KOG fumou pra fazer esse balanceamento.

E não foi só na Nevasca o nerf que a Feiticeira levou. Otto, dano da bola de gelo, tempo de congelamento, 2ª skill... É só enterrar.

[lGouldingl]

Originally posted by LightningThe13th:

Originally posted by lGouldingl:

Nerfaram a nevasca da feiticeira em um nível ridículo.

Nevasca, Chuva de Meteoros, Zero Absoluto... Todas as 3ª skills que dão dano em área gigante dão cerca de 200 de dano agora, quase 1/10 do dano original, sem condições.
Não sei o que a KOG fumou pra fazer esse balanceamento.

E não foi só na Nevasca o nerf que a Feiticeira levou. Otto, dano da bola de gelo, tempo de congelamento, 2ª skill... É só enterrar.

Já enterraram, no caso kkkk

[Adolphoenie]

I am not a PvP player, mainly because of the delay and the lag; The fact that whenever you hit an opponent and this one still moved triggered me so much from the very start, so I decided to move from the PvP scene. However, I highly agree with you with the changes KOG implemented. I think PvP was just fine (besides the delay of course), and the only thing that could make it better, at that moment, and for me, was to delete the delay. This last patch was pointless, and I really dislike that KOG wasted time, and resources probably, trying to improve something that was not a problem at all. I think KOG is ignoring the big a** elephant in the room, and it was not the previous PvP system whatsoever.

[Papa_Rabbit]

Give this guy a reward! Very well said! And we lost another comrade here.

[svengcc]

100% agree with DL.

[Honkpill]

Sempre gostei de pvp mas não existe razão de jogar com lag e agr com esse desbalance pior ainda kkkkkk

Mais uma vez kog cagando nogame

Se lançassem o jogo sem mexer em NADA e abandonassem o game seria melhor do que essa quantidade de cagda q fizeram no game

[renat0p]

As a old pvp player, I'm sad that grandchase developers/leaders continues with same errors that caused the end before. Seems that KOG don't read feedbacks from players. U can see today that only asia server have players, and they are playing oath valley. Maybe kog is using this pvps analysis to made this changes? I can't understand.
Is notabble that the quantity of players is falling down more and more each patch and pvp players is missing the hope.
KOG, you are reading the feedbacks? What is the future plans? Wake up please.
We need local decent servers;
We need developers that know pvp tatics to keep this balanced;
We need something that bring again the competitive. Where is the championships?
Regards, AntigoShyper.

[Kenichi]

Lol... "grand chase PVP was fine!!" Yea right.

Literally most of the cast was hot garbage in PVP and some were outright booted from rooms for how stupid they were in general.

People running around with Sieg and jin and all the busted AP characters all the time making PVP absolutely miserable experiences for so long.

Still stand by that AP as a resource system was a mistake and always was. Broke the balance of PVP and never got fixed.

Stop that nonsense with calling GC PVP fine, cause it most definitely was NOT.

And because of the inherantly high and crazy lag of GC in general being always P2P, connections mattered more then skill it felt like sometimes.

Nostalgia glasses are blinding your vision my dude.