What did you do to Dio

[genoxflame]

As a long time Dio main i have to rant again about how hard KOG ruined this character. Why would you remove his passives, Why would you make blink 14 seconds long, why is his damage so low, why is his AP recovery gutted, and to further pile on who possessed any of you to kill onrush the way you did while nerfing EVERY other thing about him. Dio's role is an all arounder DPS unit. The only way for this character to function is by dropping cash or saving your SB scrolls for him its ridiculous and if Dio is releasing this bad what will you do to the other AP characters; or is the vision to have Dio be the useless elesis of the AP characters?

[khermerker]

I will post here being this is more active that old Dio talk I joined, First i will say this 2 things, I did go for weapon path, second Im not Dio main with 75k total attack (yup I know is bad for get the real power but give a rought idea that not say anything ).

So well one of the points I wanted to check before write about more of Dio was perseo, nope the boss well the boss but WL floor 15 boss, and solo cause then people will come and say, other pass you. My experience there was well not so bad... actually being less AT that elesis I did it not so bad as with her, only 5 mins less. Now you will say but the items and this have to say yup.. used 30 hp pots approx with 3 50% elixirs for the spammers. But 10 of them was in the worst part that i play for try kill faster make too many mistakes. So at the end.. is Dio that weak?. Well again as I said in elesis buff post, yup he needs a buff, but he is so bad that without a buff he can't be used.. well nope... Actually I see how a good player (not me again im not main dio) can kill WL solo and with 150k TA in less of 10 mins weapon path.. not sure of devil path.. will not use sp reset for check.. Im poor you know XD.

So is Dio weak and need buff yup, he is so bad as elesis before buff, well STILL NOT SEE IT, actually for now I will say he needs ap recovery, at least 10 secs less, without the real need for mp recoveyr of 60% for be usefull (higher WL at 15 did go with 40% mp recovery) you can use atk and sp atack cards and that will help a lot his damage. Now will be enough, not sure probably will need increase damage of his combo but that will not show in berkas so berkas will be the bad dungeon for him.

[Sobolewski]

Първоначално публикувано от AliceShiki:

Yes, I'm aware that it's important to make games somewhat easy in order to attract the more casual playerbase. That's normal. That's why Dark Souls is extremely easy (Yes, it is super easy. It's just a pattern-based game instead of a game that allows you to plow through everything without knowing the boss patterns. The execution difficulty in Dark Souls is basically inexistent. It's only hard for as long as you don't know the patterns... Which can be learned in 20s of fight usually.) too. Because the casual players are the biggest amount of players in every game ever made. Hardcore players are always the minority.

Soooo, sooo true. Dark Souls requires all of a couple minutes of observation of attack patterns gameplay-wise. Its "difficulty" lies in building stats, and even then its pretty easy once you figure out HP and Stamina yield the most returns early game and should be soft-capped before leveling damage stats. The true hardship comes from invasions, really.

Първоначално публикувано от Anti-Michele:

Първоначално публикувано от Sobolewski:

Onrush should have never existed, it was a cheap way out of actually learning to dodge boss attacks and manage your resources, why do all that when you can expend a couple potions to oneshot the majority of bosses with NO risk? It's at its rightful place right now : a trash skill for trash players.

That's why ToD exists, if a hardcore player wants to try hard, they can go there. KoG should not affect the whole community just because of a few people complaining. If they don't want to play strong characters, they can play weak characters instead, No one here forbids them.

Because the existence of Onrush made playing older characters in PvE an absolute nightmare back in the old GC. You'd get constantly kicked from lobbies for not rocking a Dio or some other broken-ass AP character. And getting kicked meant sometimes you'd be stuck grinding unoptimal dungeons to get better gear because you just couldn't do endgame content alone reliably with your current stats - a long, painful grind while some Dio with 20k less stats than you just oneshot the dungeon boss with a couple potions and Onrush.

Even ToD back in the day was dominated by Dio-Azin-Lime meta and the fourth slot was often reserved for another AP/Hybrid character.

It's simply unfair for every MP character and their mains when APs get abilities that cover everything the whole four jobs of an MP cover, at once, and still get to deal more damage while being easier to play.

[--Umbrella corporatioN--]

Hey have you seen the damage of Dio's Imperium? so ♥♥♥♥♥♥ damage as in so ♥♥♥♥♥♥, proud swing has more damage than his "IMPERIUM"

[76561199209623456]

Първоначално публикувано от AliceShiki:

Yes, I'm aware that it's important to make games somewhat easy in order to attract the more casual playerbase. That's normal. That's why Dark Souls is extremely easy (Yes, it is super easy. It's just a pattern-based game instead of a game that allows you to plow through everything without knowing the boss patterns. The execution difficulty in Dark Souls is basically inexistent. It's only hard for as long as you don't know the patterns... Which can be learned in 20s of fight usually.) too. Because the casual players are the biggest amount of players in every game ever made. Hardcore players are always the minority.

OMFG!!!! YES! That was That's what I've always told you in previous threads.

Първоначално публикувано от Charles Knight:

The problem here is the way they gave dodge back. Even a pro player was once a noob so they understand very well where new players will have difficulty. In my experience, there isn't a single monster in the game with a danger pattern that lasts long enough for your 10s-dodge to catch up. Simply put, if you ever find yourself in a dangerous situation where you need to dodge, the same attack will surely come to you, before your 10s cd runs out. You can't just rely on dodge forever, can you? You need to have another strategy to avoid such a situation: learn the boss's pattern by heart, rely on another skill you can trust, raise your gears, chug your potions, etc. So I and a lot of experienced players are used to dealing with situations like this BUT it's different for new players or those who are not familiar with that gameplay. I don't have a problem if KoG is bringing dodge back or not, what I care about is Elesis damage. But not everyone thinks like me, that's why they asked KoG to return the roll, and the fact that they give back the roll in a state like that is like a stab for these people. There are times when the ticket sender wants KoG to do this, but KoG does it differently from what they think. If they had good management skills from the start, they wouldn't have asked for it, especially for newbies. And like I said above, having an unlimited cd roll is not a game-breaker, The thing you rely on the most without the SA bar is hyper armor, that's if you want to survive one-hit hits, and even hyper armor won't save you from Gardosen's instant-death in ToD.

And now do you understand the problem? For me, GC is easy because I have been playing this shjt for a long time, being an old-timer, not because I am good at playing it, to the point that the enemy pattern is already in my mind, but other players do not. By the way, Dark Soul is easy because you have experienced the same thing, but they always take Dark Soul's difficulty as a unique selling point for business so it always exists in some way even though you feel it's the opposite. Of course, with any game, you only need information, play a lot and then you will find it easy.

Първоначално публикувано от AliceShiki:

That said, excessively easy content is bad. When the players get bored by the content because there is nothing entertaining about it, then you are losing players. You need to make the content easy enough to be overcome by basically everyone, but hard enough to still offer a challenge. This is what will make your players continue playing.

GC back when it closed had this problem... Everything just kinda melted by pressing a button... It just wasn't fun.
Even now the problem is still there in the first two-three regions tbh. The game starts getting a bit fun in Gaicoz, and fun for real around Kamiki... Before that point it's just... Well, braindead easy? That's bad. It's hard to get new players if they're bored by the first 40 levels of gameplay. They probably won't reach lv 40 to start having fun.
... But well, it was much much much worse back in Season 5 and stuff, so it's a good thing that they took the right steps to fixing it.

YOUR ARGUMENT MAKES NO SENSE. Grand Chase has never been so easy that you only need one button to clear a difficult dungeon. This is why many people here advise you to PLAY THIS GAME YOURSELF, you really NEED it not "I just need to log in to the game for 1~2 hours leveling to 80, and then I'm done, it's fun". I will give you many examples both in the past and in the future, this game is never easy unless you upgrade like crazy or play for a long time.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/304270/discussions/0/405693392930535739/

Above is a small discussion that took place after the game closed in 2015, you can see that this post was created in 2016. they even discussed that the game from Xenia onwards and is almost impossible to do 'no damage' without SA, they need stronger characters, and there is no comment saying the game is too easy as you wrote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMqbtj_6oXg

Above is a video that took place after season V, season V is where they nerf all of the character's damage to minus infinity and the only thing that compensates is SA (and dafuq?, they even removed it in GCC when GCC is even harder?). They even buffed Wizard Labyrinth so hard that it's unplayable, look at the channel owner's comment, he even said he couldn't clear it without Onrush, and the worst part is that this is the easiest floor, the 12th floor, where everyone considers this a coin grinding heaven for 2 hero coins. KOG found it so crazy that they had to nerf it the next few days. If you think this is fine then no... they nerfed it again later on because it's still damn hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1CmOFGPIqE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXVNbvE9z4I&

That's why we have the first 20 stages that are considered 'okay' nowadays. And I advise you... if you haven't played season V please don't say it's easy because it's so fking damn hard, anyone who's played it can catch your lie.

If you still don't understand how bad the 30th stage is, this video will explain it to you, especially when Grandiel summons his clone. Have you seen a game where the boss clones all over the room and can kill you in one shot like that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFxfWET-WYQ&t=1129s

Looks like he can still clear it, right? That's because he spent over FKING 60 natal rings to resurrect. literally impossible to clear without paying something, some clear videos are included bug and due to be owned high gear at that time. This dungeon was created before Season V and it's still a nightmare. The time when this guy clears is no different from the nightmare time that everyone goes through in season 4. Onrush was the only salvation at that time and owning MP Guild potions and HP/MP Guild potions were not easy, even you had to hoard them. It is not a skill without a trade-off because what it trades for is your time.

Berkas is a dungeon that everyone considers easy right now BUT it has a history behind it. I do remember this one KR comic detailing how Berkas was the main reason that caused the old-GC population to dwindle. I read it on Naver back in 201x so please don't ask me about the link as it's been so long. The artist was a normal player up until Berkas' Lair was released, which then the comic spiraled downwards.

The art depicted room titles with absurd stat requirements, hosts not allowing those joiners that met the bare minimum to even enter Berkas which then kicked them out, not even bothering to teach those players (the art humorously showing not-stick-figures "leaving the game" with those cartoonish knapsack-and-stick-over-the-shoulders; thus the gatekeep.

Even the players that weren't involved or reached Berkas, left early until the artist eventually left the game.

After that, they made season V HARDER by nerfing everything and it's similar to the way you're talking right now and DID IT WORK? The GC history that was once dead after season V has answered itself for you.

if you don't know how bad the Grand Chase season V nerf is, here's the link. including a video link related to season V in the description and also in the comment section of that video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oohgzFqvbwE

They themselves say that not all novice developers understand the game as well as players, so don't be surprised if they can't answer your question. This is normal, serious, they don't make excuses like the way you are making excuses.

blog(.)naver(.)com/kogblog/60212578267

Moreover, they need to make the early levels easy because new players need to adapt the gameplay (even veteran players need it), plus the real focus is on the high levels, so the early stages have to be sped up. I've never seen a game where they complain that the first level leads to boredom??? Can you give me an example???? If so, only haters can say those words. Don't make stupid arguments like that Sanidade0 guy back then, he even complained that KOG nerfed too much and that dude paid the price for it by coming up here complaining that Dio was too weak.
Don't be like 'Poppin Often With Lofton', he doesn't even play Dio and makes video tutorials like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx1Kwz2WJnI
When I do a tutorial, I definitely have to play the game thoroughly, not just SAYING AND NOT PLAYING. That's the only thing I'd call work professionally. not only for others but for myself, and I'm starting to see you showing that sign, without playing this game properly.

As for how easy Dio is to play? Welcome to Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Grandchase/comments/rrbe04/dio_feels_so_bad_to_play/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Grandchase/comments/rme0cb/i_feel_like_dios_ap_generation_is_weak/

You will downvote immediately if you say Dio strong. Nerf is not the problem, the problem is that he is nerfed to the point of being almost unplayable compared to the overall character which is a huge problem.

Първоначално публикувано от AliceShiki:

You can talk as much as you want about how players can like the "feeling of being strong" or whatever... But fact is, if a game is boring, then people will stop playing it. And braindead easy games are boring, so people won't keep on playing... You do need difficulty, it's absolutely necessary to have some difficulty on the game.

Don't distract from the problem? I'm just saying most of the scientific reasons why people like to keep it simple, not make it so hard that it's unplayable like the examples above. The game makes it so difficult that you can't dodge the boss attack even if you know the pattern (Grandiel for example)? Is that called a challenge??

Първоначално публикувано от AliceShiki:

As for the focus being on PVE instead of in PVP... That's just because the casual players don't care about PVP in GC. They play for the PVE, so the focus of the game is on PVE... It's just a simple sensible business decision.

Like, seriously, the PVP in GC has its charm, but it's also a total mess. It's clunky and weird and just doesn't appeal to most players... It would be crazy to try appealing to that when the PVE system is just a lot more solid and a lot more entertaining to the majority of the playerbase.

That's why the game has 2000~3000 players left, while they can do better because the number of PVP players is gone, without anyone PVP there is no reason for me to join PVP, my friend. Have you tried asking current players? The game is getting bored because of the REPEAT, not because the game is TOO EASY.

Do you know why every time I say something you can't answer? Because you haven't played for as long as we used to, every time I say something you'll use the excuse that I haven't played there yet, it's just plain stupid. You don't understand why we're complaining, we're complaining because we want the best things for the game, not because we want to put the game to death.

[AliceShiki]

Първоначално публикувано от Charles Knight:

Първоначално публикувано от AliceShiki:

Yes, I'm aware that it's important to make games somewhat easy in order to attract the more casual playerbase. That's normal. That's why Dark Souls is extremely easy (Yes, it is super easy. It's just a pattern-based game instead of a game that allows you to plow through everything without knowing the boss patterns. The execution difficulty in Dark Souls is basically inexistent. It's only hard for as long as you don't know the patterns... Which can be learned in 20s of fight usually.) too. Because the casual players are the biggest amount of players in every game ever made. Hardcore players are always the minority.

OMFG!!!! YES! That was That's what I've always told you in previous threads.

Първоначално публикувано от Charles Knight:

The problem here is the way they gave dodge back. Even a pro player was once a noob so they understand very well where new players will have difficulty. In my experience, there isn't a single monster in the game with a danger pattern that lasts long enough for your 10s-dodge to catch up. Simply put, if you ever find yourself in a dangerous situation where you need to dodge, the same attack will surely come to you, before your 10s cd runs out. You can't just rely on dodge forever, can you? You need to have another strategy to avoid such a situation: learn the boss's pattern by heart, rely on another skill you can trust, raise your gears, chug your potions, etc. So I and a lot of experienced players are used to dealing with situations like this BUT it's different for new players or those who are not familiar with that gameplay. I don't have a problem if KoG is bringing dodge back or not, what I care about is Elesis damage. But not everyone thinks like me, that's why they asked KoG to return the roll, and the fact that they give back the roll in a state like that is like a stab for these people. There are times when the ticket sender wants KoG to do this, but KoG does it differently from what they think. If they had good management skills from the start, they wouldn't have asked for it, especially for newbies. And like I said above, having an unlimited cd roll is not a game-breaker, The thing you rely on the most without the SA bar is hyper armor, that's if you want to survive one-hit hits, and even hyper armor won't save you from Gardosen's instant-death in ToD.

And now do you understand the problem? For me, GC is easy because I have been playing this shjt for a long time, being an old-timer, not because I am good at playing it, to the point that the enemy pattern is already in my mind, but other players do not. By the way, Dark Soul is easy because you have experienced the same thing, but they always take Dark Soul's difficulty as a unique selling point for business so it always exists in some way even though you feel it's the opposite. Of course, with any game, you only need information, play a lot and then you will find it easy.

Първоначално публикувано от AliceShiki:

That said, excessively easy content is bad. When the players get bored by the content because there is nothing entertaining about it, then you are losing players. You need to make the content easy enough to be overcome by basically everyone, but hard enough to still offer a challenge. This is what will make your players continue playing.

GC back when it closed had this problem... Everything just kinda melted by pressing a button... It just wasn't fun.
Even now the problem is still there in the first two-three regions tbh. The game starts getting a bit fun in Gaicoz, and fun for real around Kamiki... Before that point it's just... Well, braindead easy? That's bad. It's hard to get new players if they're bored by the first 40 levels of gameplay. They probably won't reach lv 40 to start having fun.
... But well, it was much much much worse back in Season 5 and stuff, so it's a good thing that they took the right steps to fixing it.

YOUR ARGUMENT MAKES NO SENSE. Grand Chase has never been so easy that you only need one button to clear a difficult dungeon. This is why many people here advise you to PLAY THIS GAME YOURSELF, you really NEED it not "I just need to log in to the game for 1~2 hours leveling to 80, and then I'm done, it's fun". I will give you many examples both in the past and in the future, this game is never easy unless you upgrade like crazy or play for a long time.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/304270/discussions/0/405693392930535739/

Above is a small discussion that took place after the game closed in 2015, you can see that this post was created in 2016. they even discussed that the game from Xenia onwards and is almost impossible to do 'no damage' without SA, they need stronger characters, and there is no comment saying the game is too easy as you wrote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMqbtj_6oXg

Above is a video that took place after season V, season V is where they nerf all of the character's damage to minus infinity and the only thing that compensates is SA (and dafuq?, they even removed it in GCC when GCC is even harder?). They even buffed Wizard Labyrinth so hard that it's unplayable, look at the channel owner's comment, he even said he couldn't clear it without Onrush, and the worst part is that this is the easiest floor, the 12th floor, where everyone considers this a coin grinding heaven for 2 hero coins. KOG found it so crazy that they had to nerf it the next few days. If you think this is fine then no... they nerfed it again later on because it's still damn hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1CmOFGPIqE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXVNbvE9z4I&

That's why we have the first 20 stages that are considered 'okay' nowadays. And I advise you... if you haven't played season V please don't say it's easy because it's so fking damn hard, anyone who's played it can catch your lie.

If you still don't understand how bad the 30th stage is, this video will explain it to you, especially when Grandiel summons his clone. Have you seen a game where the boss clones all over the room and can kill you in one shot like that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFxfWET-WYQ&t=1129s

Looks like he can still clear it, right? That's because he spent over FKING 60 natal rings to resurrect. literally impossible to clear without paying something, some clear videos are included bug and due to be owned high gear at that time. This dungeon was created before Season V and it's still a nightmare. The time when this guy clears is no different from the nightmare time that everyone goes through in season 4. Onrush was the only salvation at that time and owning MP Guild potions and HP/MP Guild potions were not easy, even you had to hoard them. It is not a skill without a trade-off because what it trades for is your time.

Berkas is a dungeon that everyone considers easy right now BUT it has a history behind it. I do remember this one KR comic detailing how Berkas was the main reason that caused the old-GC population to dwindle. I read it on Naver back in 201x so please don't ask me about the link as it's been so long. The artist was a normal player up until Berkas' Lair was released, which then the comic spiraled downwards.

The art depicted room titles with absurd stat requirements, hosts not allowing those joiners that met the bare minimum to even enter Berkas which then kicked them out, not even bothering to teach those players (the art humorously showing not-stick-figures "leaving the game" with those cartoonish knapsack-and-stick-over-the-shoulders; thus the gatekeep.

Even the players that weren't involved or reached Berkas, left early until the artist eventually left the game.

After that, they made season V HARDER by nerfing everything and it's similar to the way you're talking right now and DID IT WORK? The GC history that was once dead after season V has answered itself for you.

if you don't know how bad the Grand Chase season V nerf is, here's the link. including a video link related to season V in the description and also in the comment section of that video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oohgzFqvbwE

They themselves say that not all novice developers understand the game as well as players, so don't be surprised if they can't answer your question. This is normal, serious, they don't make excuses like the way you are making excuses.

blog(.)naver(.)com/kogblog/60212578267

Moreover, they need to make the early levels easy because new players need to adapt the gameplay (even veteran players need it), plus the real focus is on the high levels, so the early stages have to be sped up. I've never seen a game where they complain that the first level leads to boredom??? Can you give me an example???? If so, only haters can say those words. Don't make stupid arguments like that Sanidade0 guy back then, he even complained that KOG nerfed too much and that dude paid the price for it by coming up here complaining that Dio was too weak.
Don't be like 'Poppin Often With Lofton', he doesn't even play Dio and makes video tutorials like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx1Kwz2WJnI
When I do a tutorial, I definitely have to play the game thoroughly, not just SAYING AND NOT PLAYING. That's the only thing I'd call work professionally. not only for others but for myself, and I'm starting to see you showing that sign, without playing this game properly.

As for how easy Dio is to play? Welcome to Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Grandchase/comments/rrbe04/dio_feels_so_bad_to_play/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Grandchase/comments/rme0cb/i_feel_like_dios_ap_generation_is_weak/

You will downvote immediately if you say Dio strong. Nerf is not the problem, the problem is that he is nerfed to the point of being almost unplayable compared to the overall character which is a huge problem.

Първоначално публикувано от AliceShiki:

You can talk as much as you want about how players can like the "feeling of being strong" or whatever... But fact is, if a game is boring, then people will stop playing it. And braindead easy games are boring, so people won't keep on playing... You do need difficulty, it's absolutely necessary to have some difficulty on the game.

Don't distract from the problem? I'm just saying most of the scientific reasons why people like to keep it simple, not make it so hard that it's unplayable like the examples above. The game makes it so difficult that you can't dodge the boss attack even if you know the pattern (Grandiel for example)? Is that called a challenge??

Първоначално публикувано от AliceShiki:

As for the focus being on PVE instead of in PVP... That's just because the casual players don't care about PVP in GC. They play for the PVE, so the focus of the game is on PVE... It's just a simple sensible business decision.

Like, seriously, the PVP in GC has its charm, but it's also a total mess. It's clunky and weird and just doesn't appeal to most players... It would be crazy to try appealing to that when the PVE system is just a lot more solid and a lot more entertaining to the majority of the playerbase.

That's why the game has 2000~3000 players left, while they can do better because the number of PVP players is gone, without anyone PVP there is no reason for me to join PVP, my friend. Have you tried asking current players? The game is getting bored because of the REPEAT, not because the game is TOO EASY.

Do you know why every time I say something you can't answer? Because you haven't played for as long as we used to, every time I say something you'll use the excuse that I haven't played there yet, it's just plain stupid. You don't understand why we're complaining, we're complaining because we want the best things for the game, not because we want to put the game to death.

I'm not gonna bother with watching videos, but I don't see why you bring up endgame dungeons when the excessively easy dungeons are the early-game ones (Also, I never said that the endgame dungeons were easy). The people that are affected by the difficulty (or lack of) of early-game dungeons are new-players, not enfranchised players.

Even if you never played any game like GC, the early game dungeons are all a joke. It starts getting a bit fun around Gaicoz and not before. It's not strange for this little difficulty to bore people to death... Leading to them quitting.

And like, yeah, sure, GC has never been so easy that you could press one button and kill Berkas... But you certainly could press one button and kill Gorgos. And that's the very definition of boring gameplay. Do you really think anyone will have fun playing a new game if everything dies to one hit before lv 40? They'll quit at lv 10, and never find out that there is actual difficulty hiding behind lv 40.

I don't get your point, really. I talk about early game difficulty, and you bring up endgame difficulty.
I also said that Dio needed a nerf and that KOG nerfed the right things... But I also said that they probably went overboard with the nerfs and that Dio probably deserves a buff in the next patch. Not once did I say that Dio was currently strong.

[khermerker]

If you can in 1 hit kill gorkoz you are not a new player,, you are not even a old player but a pro. I can't and i have all chars lvl 85 now, and had done Dio floor 15-16 solo without use much items (and only 2 res). For example Otto, is just not possible for me, maybe with training in 6 hours I can get it but is not for me, Now Im not the average player either, again I solo floor 15-16 and I go solo cause in party they couldnt do it when i was playing, was horrible that is the average player, even dio was easy on 15-16 Arme having more TA for me was way worst than dio, had to change to 1st job and use a specific skill for have it enough easy, and only see other job that can do it without a good pet and is 3 job and is way harder.

This game your experience AliceShiki is not the average player, once you enter a room and put over 130k TA or kick then you are way off in average player, other example, I learn how work in get good stats, my chars some of them have equips lvl 63 but cause are better than 84 still use them.. this bring that TA of 75k+ for all my lvl 85, You could say, well see so low, Well I enter the rooms of need help and see people of lvl 85 with TA of less of 60k, they probably know that game have a bad TA formula and change for have more survival, for me def and vit not worth the lose of damage.
Maybe could be better if you stop this game is easy, to hey is this game easy or hard, for many dark souls is a very hard game, even celeste is a pain, not many had clear the route C (i did it without use cheats), but If i put the I did it and is easy, then I'm off the easy or hard is not defined by you but the number of players that can do it.

[AliceShiki]

Първоначално публикувано от khermerker:

If you can in 1 hit kill gorkoz you are not a new player,, you are not even a old player but a pro. I can't and i have all chars lvl 85 now, and had done Dio floor 15-16 solo without use much items (and only 2 res). For example Otto, is just not possible for me, maybe with training in 6 hours I can get it but is not for me, Now Im not the average player either, again I solo floor 15-16 and I go solo cause in party they couldnt do it when i was playing, was horrible that is the average player, even dio was easy on 15-16 Arme having more TA for me was way worst than dio, had to change to 1st job and use a specific skill for have it enough easy, and only see other job that can do it without a good pet and is 3 job and is way harder.

This game your experience AliceShiki is not the average player, once you enter a room and put over 130k TA or kick then you are way off in average player, other example, I learn how work in get good stats, my chars some of them have equips lvl 63 but cause are better than 84 still use them.. this bring that TA of 75k+ for all my lvl 85, You could say, well see so low, Well I enter the rooms of need help and see people of lvl 85 with TA of less of 60k, they probably know that game have a bad TA formula and change for have more survival, for me def and vit not worth the lose of damage.
Maybe could be better if you stop this game is easy, to hey is this game easy or hard, for many dark souls is a very hard game, even celeste is a pain, not many had clear the route C (i did it without use cheats), but If i put the I did it and is easy, then I'm off the easy or hard is not defined by you but the number of players that can do it.

Uhn... I don't get why you're talking about endgame dungeons when I was talking about a lv 10 boss? Like... From the 5th dungeon of Serdin or something? The red guy that serves Kaze'aze and stuff.

[khermerker]

Първоначално публикувано от AliceShiki:

Първоначално публикувано от khermerker:

If you can in 1 hit kill gorkoz you are not a new player,, you are not even a old player but a pro. I can't and i have all chars lvl 85 now, and had done Dio floor 15-16 solo without use much items (and only 2 res). For example Otto, is just not possible for me, maybe with training in 6 hours I can get it but is not for me, Now Im not the average player either, again I solo floor 15-16 and I go solo cause in party they couldnt do it when i was playing, was horrible that is the average player, even dio was easy on 15-16 Arme having more TA for me was way worst than dio, had to change to 1st job and use a specific skill for have it enough easy, and only see other job that can do it without a good pet and is 3 job and is way harder.

This game your experience AliceShiki is not the average player, once you enter a room and put over 130k TA or kick then you are way off in average player, other example, I learn how work in get good stats, my chars some of them have equips lvl 63 but cause are better than 84 still use them.. this bring that TA of 75k+ for all my lvl 85, You could say, well see so low, Well I enter the rooms of need help and see people of lvl 85 with TA of less of 60k, they probably know that game have a bad TA formula and change for have more survival, for me def and vit not worth the lose of damage.
Maybe could be better if you stop this game is easy, to hey is this game easy or hard, for many dark souls is a very hard game, even celeste is a pain, not many had clear the route C (i did it without use cheats), but If i put the I did it and is easy, then I'm off the easy or hard is not defined by you but the number of players that can do it.

Uhn... I don't get why you're talking about endgame dungeons when I was talking about a lv 10 boss? Like... From the 5th dungeon of Serdin or something? The red guy that serves Kaze'aze and stuff.

yup and i said I can't 1 hit ko with press 1 button with any char until now maybe with more buffs later will be possible but right now is not possible unless you spend gp on a char too many actually

[AliceShiki]

Първоначално публикувано от khermerker:

yup and i said I can't 1 hit ko with press 1 button with any char until now maybe with more buffs later will be possible but right now is not possible unless you spend gp on a char too many actually

Pretty sure it died to a single lv 3 special from my lv 70ish Arme back when I was doing Champion Mode dungeons for the sake of increasing my title collection, but that's not the point.

The point is that around Season Chaos or so, a lv 10 character was using a single skill for killing those bosses, which was like... Well, stupidly boring.

I mean, it was funny to see the boss of the first dungeon dying to a single skill, but it definitely got boring real fast when they kept on dying at this crazy stupidly fast pace during the early game back in the day... The fact that we don't trivialize bosses completely anymore is a good thing, even if the bosses themselves are still pretty easy up until lv 40ish.

[khermerker]

Първоначално публикувано от AliceShiki:

Първоначално публикувано от khermerker:

yup and i said I can't 1 hit ko with press 1 button with any char until now maybe with more buffs later will be possible but right now is not possible unless you spend gp on a char too many actually

Pretty sure it died to a single lv 3 special from my lv 70ish Arme back when I was doing Champion Mode dungeons for the sake of increasing my title collection, but that's not the point.

The point is that around Season Chaos or so, a lv 10 character was using a single skill for killing those bosses, which was like... Well, stupidly boring.

I mean, it was funny to see the boss of the first dungeon dying to a single skill, but it definitely got boring real fast when they kept on dying at this crazy stupidly fast pace during the early game back in the day... The fact that we don't trivialize bosses completely anymore is a good thing, even if the bosses themselves are still pretty easy up until lv 40ish.

your conditions clearly are way over of average player, really put a lvl 70ish arme farming champion mode there.. people had hard time finding them for farm in a place that no give A NEW PET, or anything worth it..
Your experience is not valid for new players or many returning players, that is the whole point of this discussion, right now DIo needs a buff, that i can clear with him solo floor 15 of wyzard laberinth with TA of 78k not mean that all players can do it, only mean that I can play better than average. Average players die and use res in places where i barely use 2 pots.
PD: that happend to me in the last hera in WL long time ago for example.

[AliceShiki]

Първоначално публикувано от khermerker:

your conditions clearly are way over of average player, really put a lvl 70ish arme farming champion mode there.. people had hard time finding them for farm in a place that no give A NEW PET, or anything worth it..
Your experience is not valid for new players or many returning players, that is the whole point of this discussion, right now DIo needs a buff, that i can clear with him solo floor 15 of wyzard laberinth with TA of 78k not mean that all players can do it, only mean that I can play better than average. Average players die and use res in places where i barely use 2 pots.
PD: that happend to me in the last hera in WL long time ago for example.

Uhn... I think you didn't get my point, so I'll try rephrasing it.

Back in the days of BGC, during some seasons, the early-game was so easy, that you could press a button and kill most early game-bosses. This was horrible design.

Nowadays this is better, as our level-appropriate characters are no longer able to one-shot level-appropriate early-game bosses... However, the early-game is still excessively easy, to the point that a new player may get bored of the game before they get to the actual fun parts (basically everything from Ellia onwards).

I'm obviously not suggesting that the first 3 regions get the same level of difficulty as Ellia, as this would have the inverse problem of making the early-game too hard... But I do think the early-game difficulty needs to be turned up a bit, in order to give the new players a more interesting experience once they boot the game for the first time... Since right now it's a bit too... Well, nothing offers much of a challenge before Gaicoz, which isn't ideal.

[khermerker]

ideal for who that is the question... you put a limit that I in person not see it. Right now the game is well made your point is just not there, that you dont have problems not mean that nobody had problems and the idea is that that you get how do combos without a mob killing your cause you dont know how use a char.

[76561198258341540]

Първоначално публикувано от Ramiswaifu:

Първоначално публикувано от bluedragoncool:

im gussing you didnt know that they buffed his ap recovery also his ap recovery increases with each job advancement

I would like to refute this sentence, the files related to AP recovery are not on the client-side, so unless you give solid evidence (like comparison before/after) it should not be written to avoid other players gossiping false rumors.

As far as I know, there was a misunderstanding about AP recovery increasing with job advancement due to the fact that KoG did the AP recovery patch right after receiving so many complaints about Dio's AP recovery rate in the early days of the re-release.

well i was just mentioning what i was told about his ap recovery on job advancements

[deltadragon]

Първоначално публикувано от bluedragoncool:

Първоначално публикувано от Ramiswaifu:

I would like to refute this sentence, the files related to AP recovery are not on the client-side, so unless you give solid evidence (like comparison before/after) it should not be written to avoid other players gossiping false rumors.

As far as I know, there was a misunderstanding about AP recovery increasing with job advancement due to the fact that KoG did the AP recovery patch right after receiving so many complaints about Dio's AP recovery rate in the early days of the re-release.

well i was just mentioning what i was told about his ap recovery on job advancements

It doesn't seem to be true, actually. I think it was just the timing of the buff being similar to ppl getting more advanced jobs.

[genoxflame]

Първоначално публикувано от khermerker:

I will post here being this is more active that old Dio talk I joined, First i will say this 2 things, I did go for weapon path, second Im not Dio main with 75k total attack (yup I know is bad for get the real power but give a rought idea that not say anything ).

So well one of the points I wanted to check before write about more of Dio was perseo, nope the boss well the boss but WL floor 15 boss, and solo cause then people will come and say, other pass you. My experience there was well not so bad... actually being less AT that elesis I did it not so bad as with her, only 5 mins less. Now you will say but the items and this have to say yup.. used 30 hp pots approx with 3 50% elixirs for the spammers. But 10 of them was in the worst part that i play for try kill faster make too many mistakes. So at the end.. is Dio that weak?. Well again as I said in elesis buff post, yup he needs a buff, but he is so bad that without a buff he can't be used.. well nope... Actually I see how a good player (not me again im not main dio) can kill WL solo and with 150k TA in less of 10 mins weapon path.. not sure of devil path.. will not use sp reset for check.. Im poor you know XD.

So is Dio weak and need buff yup, he is so bad as elesis before buff, well STILL NOT SEE IT, actually for now I will say he needs ap recovery, at least 10 secs less, without the real need for mp recoveyr of 60% for be usefull (higher WL at 15 did go with 40% mp recovery) you can use atk and sp atack cards and that will help a lot his damage. Now will be enough, not sure probably will need increase damage of his combo but that will not show in berkas so berkas will be the bad dungeon for him.

Any proof of you beating floor 15 i solo'd that floor with Dio but my TA is far higher than that and even then it took a long time due to perseo spamming the healing orbs. I was devil path used Kill zone/BS to negate most of the orbs. I really don't see how people play him F2P at the WL though his Ap recovery is way too slow and his damage output is abysmal. What build did you run?