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Be warned - your buttocks will be speared to no end.
I think most people here don't know enough about PVP to judge how good she is in that area.
Yes, it is an exploit, it has always been an exploit and just because the developers did not deign to fix it at the time it does not change that it is an EXPLOIT and just because they are lazy or do not want to deal with the complaints of the community they did not solve this problem , as well as many balance issues in PvP.
And yes, you could argue that in fighting games there are exploits that later deliveries became part of a mechanic but this particular case is not like that, if it were as you say, when the Skill Tree of Elesis and the other characters was released surely the otto was integrated in some way so that it is of basic knowledge of each player and to give animations that make the "mechanics" look cohesive but absolutely nothing of Elesis or other characters in the game present any reference or incentive to know the Otto.
I mean, it is literally an error in the game engine, the character makes an air attack while falling from the platform, the game for some reason interprets that you did not fall and returns you to the platform, allowing you to repeat the attack without stopping and without no kind of cooldown.
An example of this is Valve's games and its Source engine.
You know, the Bunnyhop concept.
The source engine does not detect that you are touching the ground and therefore increases your speed without stopping, this obviously is something totally unintended and therefore in later games it was fought to avoid its use, both in Counter Strike and in Team Fortress 2 for example, but Even in Team Fortress 2 even though you can't properly use the bunnyhopp, as a soldier you can still take advantage of it to be able to guarantee yourself a crit hit when using the market gardener.
And as another example of a Valve game where the bunnyhop problem was not completely resolved is Left 4 Dead 2, giving situations in VS mode where you find a damn Tank running at ridiculous speeds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3ebJ0nP78E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drQtVcOYC5Y
What I mean by this is that the Otto, as well as other possible GC exploits are unintentional and the characters were never developed based on these tricks.
In Team Fortress 2 there are 2 gigantic examples of characters that were developed with exploits in mind.
The Spy was born from an exploit in Team Fortress Quake where a player could wear the colors of the enemy team and therefore go unnoticed.
And the Demoknight, a Subclass of the Demoman which is a walking exploit, since it takes advantage of the flaws in the source engine to be able to surf the world taking advantage of its speed boost.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYma6tXnQQs
I think most people doesn't know anything about balance. Furthemore, i think most people believe a good character on PVE is a character that never dies and deals massive damage with one keypress, or to be more accurate, with no effort.
If anything, Elesis is the perfect model for balance - other characters has to be toned down to her level, not Elesis being buffed up.
Otto is not an exploit.
The engine of the game allows otto to happen on many ways.
TLDR - If have negative vertical velocity inside a platform tile, if you stay there for about 5 frames, character will be forced to be grounded.
This is how the engine works, since 2003. I hardly believe this behaviour would stay in the game for 20 years if it wasn't accepted by KOG. Devs aren't stupid.
I honestly haven't ever tried endgame content of Grand Chase, and I definitely didn't get there with Elesis, so I can't really comment on her performance there... But I will say that, if a considerably portion of the vocal playerbase (which is not a synonym to a considerable portion of the playerbase as a whole) thinks that Elesis is underpowered, then it's safe to assume that she probably does need some looking over.
I mean... At the end of your point you have said that the other characters should be brought down to her level... That's the same as agreeing that she is below the level of other characters, right? I dunno what would be the right way to address this perceived issue, but it seems like it would make sense to tweak some numbers to, at the very least, make her damage output closer to the output of other characters.
I agree with you that it's not an exploit, but I'll also agree with you that it's most likely an unintended mechanic that became a "feature" of the game... Only, it's completely non-intuitive, and most casual players don't even know that it exists.
Basically, it's part of the game and isn't going anywhere, but it's also not something that the game should be balanced around, since most players won't even know it exists... So well, a character shouldn't need to rely on that to compete with other characters (I dunno if Elesis needs Otto to compete though, I dunno anything about endgame of GC).
Valve deals one way, KOG does another. KOG does not give the info on many other stuff, as an example -> Sieg has a dodge on the 3rd job class and there is no mention about this anywhere, so is it a exploit? They added a dodge by accident, is that your theory? (z+down to get to the instance + x)
The problem here is that there is two variables:
Meme factor -> Even though nobody is actually having problems with Elesis that you don't have with other characters, people already had this "Elesis is bad" meme for some time (on some communities) so people just pass it foward and pick her up expecting her to be bad.
And -> She has a difficulty spike in the mid game (Xenia and Aton) and a lot of players are comparing with a game that has been (Old times Grand Chase)
Also, no character can even rely on otto on end-game: It is nerfed in the ToD and on Berkas is useless. She is fine with or without it
the only nerf they did is ryan nephlim this far. i dont think they will nerf any other.
>players in general
so did some of the developers.
the truth is "people" in general are horrible at solving problems.
dont put the weight on player, since the only way you notices the problem is by playing it. which is the base of problem solving (noticing the problem).
Pretty sure they nerfed other stuff though? I mean... Maybe those nerfs already happened back in Season 5 and I just didn't notice it (because I wasn't playing at that point), but I'm sure that Arme's Meteor Rain was stronger back in Season 2-3-Chaos than it is now.
Lass' default 3rd skill also feels stupidly weak right now, and I definitely remember it being usable before.
So like... I'm pretty sure they nerfed more than just Nephilin? I dunno how much they nerfed, but I'm pretty sure it's more than just that one transformation.
Devs generally have a better notion of how to balance the game that they have made. They have access to more data than the players do, and they do have a proper vision about the game as a whole.
Of course devs can mess up, or rather... It's fairly common for them to mess up... But they're definitely a lot more qualified to solve their own messes, than most players are.
To give an anecdotal example (it ended up much longer than I planned... Oops?), I used to be a dev for a forum game some time back. I put a lot of effort into my design, but I made quite a few mistakes during it (in part because it's impossible to get playtesters for a forum game, so I had to make the game without any gameplay data whatsoever), but well... As the game advanced, I made some patches to address some problems that I was noticing and the like.
... Then some players came and tried to offer "solutions" to my patch, because they didn't like it, which were like... Basically going directly against the purpose of the patch. If a patch was made to fix a given exploit, people genuinely thought it was a good idea to change things around to add the exploit back to the game, but in a way that they thought it was fine or something...
Or when I made a patch to balance out different classes, people started complaining about how the nerfs were unfair and stuff and how the class became worthless without even testing it out or seeing how it played post-patch.
Or worse, some people started complaining about a certain class without ever trying playing with it and deeming it absolutely useless and the like. Saying that it needed a complete overhaul and the like without looking at the buffs that the class had already taken or anything... >.>
Like... I didn't just tweak numbers without thinking, I carefully thought about the numbers I changed, and when certain skills felt worthless to me, I started changing them around in a different way... And I also had data on every single match that had been played on the game so far, so I knew what skills were used more than others, and I had a good grasp on the player experience with each of the skills, so I had plenty of data to work with in order to do my fixes... Yet some random players that only had data on their own matches felt qualified enough to go and tell me the exact way everything should be rebalanced and how everything they never played with was worthless and unplayable.
At the same time, people did complain quite a bit about how some classes felt way too strong when compared to others, and I did notice they were right, so I nerfed those a bit... People also pointed out there was one class in particular that felt really bad, and I buffed it enough times to make it on par with the others... And some bosses were horribly unbalanced or a huge pain to be fought, so I also tweaked those as I started understanding their problems and the like... I almost never did what players suggested me to do, but I definitely heard their opinions on things, and they were often (but not always) right when pointing out problems with my designs. So their opinion was valuable~
... This was a long rant, oops? Anyways, my point is more like... Even when I was hosting a forum game with like, two dozens of players or something, I still felt way more qualified to balance my game than any player. Plain and simply because I had made that game and had the whole data on how people played the matches in general and could see what worked and what didn't work.
The same applies to bigger games like GC and whatever. The devs have a lot of data on their hands, and they have made the game. They have their idea of balance and they know the direction they want the game to go. They can and will make mistakes, and it's important for the playerbase to point out said mistakes as they are noticed... And then it's up to the devs to evaluate said complaints and see if there is a real problem or not, and to decide on how address them... And well, I usually have enough faith on the devs to think that they'll do a good job at patching up the problems, or at least taking the steps in the right direction, even if not necessarily solving them.
PD: yup I play elesis and yup can do a lot of things but at higher Total attack i do less dmg to harkion that other chars.
I will answer the up post here, nope saying I was more qualified for my game is not same as say Grand chase time is more qualiefed that rest. I will put this as example big ogre in xenia is the first boss where is clear something is wrong, That place become dependent of elesis 1st mp dmg, and also well low mp recovery so you could get hit without any other option, that is clear bad design.
Lets continue, the train map with elesis if you got stuck on right with boss, congrats be lucky passing him (possible but hard as hell) or go with bonus, any other char is balanced have double jump, or evade for pass him, elesis well die.
Now talking about design grand chase is weird, why champion tickets and event tickets can't be passed?, there are no reason of exploit for that be the case, you have 1 ticket get it only dailies or point shop, and both are account bounded, so the items should not have those restrictions at all.
Finally the gp reset item, the more important item in game is in a event dungeon (as i read in other post) and event dungeon not even show that it drops there, not only that lack of information of important drops from all places.
This game is clearly a low effort to make money, with balance that is a joke and clearly developers dont knowing what to do.
Pretty sure they nerfed Arme anyways. She used to deal 20hits on final touch, now it's only 10, her damage consistency has gone way down.
Yeah, I guess it must be very hard to get the 350k mark on her. However, aside from that I don't see why you'd want to go beyond 35k as rewards are way better at 35k than anything less than 350k (Less potions, less natals, less stones for what? Ernasis set, which has way better spots to farm up and a card that also have better spots to farm up)
As for getting stuck: It is a matter of taking the 3rd job class, no? I do think this is the real problem with grand chase balance: Almost every character has the one build that works and almost everything else is just completely useless.
You're almost forced on taking certain stuff to certain places.
As an example, Lire's 4th job. This is something that I really feel that needs a buff, as it seem genuinely as handicaping yourself when you can just take 1st or 2nd job.
There is a lot of "Not telling" on KOG's part and I agree with you that it seems lazy from the developers. However, things seemed kinda like that on elsword too and they put some dedication in that game, so I'm guessing it is just their way -> Letting the community figure it out.
Honestly, I kinda like going on forum and different communities and getting different and usefull information on how to do stuff in the game.
Also in the moment you say elesis can't get 350k in harkion you alread lose the debate, that means she needs a buff, any other char can do more damage than her in harkion