Upper, Middle, Lower Deck

[Plinto]

Guys, I'm sorry but it is completely ridiculous that you set out to make a spaceship building game, but have no plans to include multiple decks for ships.

I want to be clear: I don't care about why you didn't do it. I'm simply telling you, from my perspective as a player, that it's a misstep, and that you should seriously reconsider putting the work in to at LEAST include an Upper, Middle, and Lower deck for ship designs.

A single level for every ship does not look or feel good. It doesn't feel like I'm on a ship in space, it feels like I'm drifting around on a platform or a raft. I'm begging you to reconsider, because limiting everything to a single level is holding this game back in a big way.

[Wantoomany]

I disagree, the benefits beyond aesthetics would just be more building space. The downsides however, would be reduced situational awareness and greatly reduced performance.

[I blame Earthshaker]

I couldn't speak to how much or little it would reduce game performance, since that is at least partially dependent on an individual player's system; but pretty sure we can all agree that devs want to maximize availability!

But how to display multiple levels? 'Cuz if it's one level at a time Dwarf Fortress style, either stuff WILL get missed or player will eventually get overloaded with excessively unnecessary warnings that they will ignore. And then miss stuff anyways...

It's a game, not a reality simulator. Not saying that I don't appreciate verisimilitude (because I do!), but at some point realism gonna need to get capped.

[aksel_bugbyte]

I have written a lot on this before but will share some more thoughts here!

While a new idea sounds awesome as an idea and regarding the possible opportunities. Not caring on why not to do something is how games get stuck in feature creeps, implementing major changes that lead to a multitude of new problems, both gameplay wise and technical wise.

It is all too clear to us from our 10 year game dev experience that it is impossible to predict all the issues that may arise from a big change like this one would be. The best one can do is to spend serious time thinking about the pitfalls and problems, and then consider those and if the feeling is still that we want to commit, then commit and try to tackle the unforeseen problems that come along the way.

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My previous thoughts

It is unlikely to happen. It's more that it's a pandora's box regarding player awareness and ease of play.

With a single plane there are already multiple points of interests, with player ships and enemy faction ships. Multiple boarding events could take place at multiple point of interests. Having to switch between floors to see who is where is where it becomes problematic.

Thinking about the worst case scenario would be that the focus would shift from watching the game world to watching notifications at the right hand side to know what is going on.

And this is just one example. Events like fires and other could take place on multiple different floors. Imagine having to draft your crew members to ensure every floor is getting taken care of, while pirates are boarding your other ship and have spread to multiple floors.

The benefit of a single plane is the ability to pan around and see everything, react, and see the results. Being able to scan the game world with the camera, without having to switch to different levels to see what is going on. Even with just one plane right now, there can sometimes be a bit too much going on in various places.

Another major thing would be the need to simulate all gases, temperature, etc on all of the floors. Possibly leading to performance issues on lesser computers. And again, the player having to go through every floor separately and check they are OK.

There are certainly upsides to z-levels as well, but so much of it depends on the type of game in question, and how well it fits with all the other moving pieces in the game. We know that the work amount would be massive, and the benefits (Compared to draw backs) are questionable for Space Haven specifically.

One thing is for certain. Even though one tries to analyze the pro's and con's of a new feature, there always tends to be surprises in form of some issue that comes up. It would need to be part of the deliberation as well.

Those are some of our thoughts at the moment at least. =)

[CircuitOverlord]

I agree with the reasons for a single plane. The only reason I could see for another plane is more space, which you can get by creating a bigger ship template (or editing the save file if you really want to go crazy). Having different planes I think would somewhat take you out of the game.

I would like to see bigger enemy ships and stations. It's a lot of fun to board an enemy ship and explore the ship while fighting the crew. Would love to see enemy capital ships (9by9 or even bigger). Massive stations is another thing I'd love to see. I could actually see enjoying a multiple level enemy station, although thats a lot of work for something that wouldn't be too common in the universe.

[r055co]

I have to agree with OP, not having at least 3 decks is huge misstep. I bought this over a year ago but moved on, mostly due to designing a pizza box ship is very limiting. I just played it again checking out the progress. But again being restricted to one level deck pizza box is very limiting.

[Grebo Punter]

I am fine with no Z levels. I think it would be an annoying additional level of micro-management to be swapping back and forth.

All my ships do end up turning into squares though.

What I would more like to see is a compelling reason to keep more than one ship other than just for fun. I don't know what that would be though.

[r055co]

Originally posted by Grebo Punter:

I am fine with no Z levels. I think it would be an annoying additional level of micro-management to be swapping back and forth.

All my ships do end up turning into squares though.

What I would more like to see is a compelling reason to keep more than one ship other than just for fun. I don't know what that would be though.

Gotta disagree, plenty of games out there with multiple levels. For me managing a huge Pizza Box is much more of a major PiA than having different levels.

[Sam Look]

I completely disagree with OP.
I definitely prefer the simplicity of the single deck and the UI it creates.
All I can see multiple decks doing is adding unnecessary complexity with little or no game play value.

It's like Rimworld, we all know you can make more levels in a mountain or house. But they don't really add anything to the core game other than significant UI complexity, so they weren't included.
Plenty of other survival games have added multiple levels and presumably spent a lot of resources doing so. Almost none (if any) are as good as RImworld.

[RavensDaemon]

This horse has been dead for a long time, stop beating it.

[aaror]

I'm glad there is only one deck, but there is a compromise. Have some components that take more space above or below. Maybe improved solar panels that are only 2x2 in the main deck, but take a 6x6 area above (which would mean other things that need roof access like guns couldn't be nearby). Storage areas could have a big footprint under the ship, meaning you couldn't put them close to shuttle docks.
A lot of things could save space on the main deck by taking space above or below, without actually having space crew could move through, so you would only have to see the main deck.
This would give a reason to have some more techs. A new tech level might use less space on the main deck by using other decks' space. Storage tech 2 gives that bigger storage mentioned above, Solar panels tech 2 for the 6x6 solar panels. Hibernation pods 2 would take a 1x2 on the main deck by storing the cooling equipment on the lower deck. etc. etc. etc.

[Sticky Wicket]

Originally posted by RavensDaemon:

This horse has been dead for a long time, stop beating it.

Not true, the idea of multiple decks is often suggested.

[Sticky Wicket]

As Iv'e suggested multiple times now, if not the addition of full decks then maybe the addition of raised or lowered areas and the ability to add some single square width catwalks that extend across the ship in certain places or follow the walls like ledges, accessed by ladders.

[RavensDaemon]

Originally posted by Sticky Wicket:

Originally posted by RavensDaemon:

This horse has been dead for a long time, stop beating it.

Not true, the idea of multiple decks is often suggested.

And the Devs have said "No" multiple times

[Admiral Vector]

agree with op,

I see both points, but id prefer to play SE despite of their issues I can build what I want and as long as I have friends available we can go anywhere. as for this game. with understanding and respect to the dev. having z access as an option would be nice and would have kept me from returning this game. keep in mind an option would give the player choice. you don't have to build that way if you don't but by not developing it that way you force your choice instead of giving options

[I blame Earthshaker]

Originally posted by Captain Roderick:

agree with op,

I see both points, but id prefer to play SE despite of their issues I can build what I want and as long as I have friends available we can go anywhere. as for this game. with understanding and respect to the dev. having z access as an option would be nice and would have kept me from returning this game. keep in mind an option would give the player choice. you don't have to build that way if you don't but by not developing it that way you force your choice instead of giving options

This thread is over 6 months old and won't die... if some players so badly want the Z levels, they can go make their own game and learn the hard way why it can be such an issue!