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In vanilla gameplay there's not much point in having multiple ships. All it does is spread your crew and resources around. I would advise condensing your ships into one super ship. You can fit all your needs into one 3x2 (6 point) ship and have two points left over for a support craft if you really want.
It should be possible to claim mission stations even if all ship points are used up.
Did you have some type of mod or other alteration to the ship sizes so that the ship points were negative? We tried testing with all ship points used up and claiming the stations still works, but it could be that if the points are negative then it is not possible.
We can change the code now to also allow if the ship points are negative, if someone wants to mod and have bigger fleets and still do missions.
When I failed a station building mission and ended up owning this station for a while, I did have fun building out the station for my own use since they didn't want it anymore, and I would come back every so often and use it to grow food and give my crew some vacation and time to do trade on a large scale since the androids are insistent on taking everything I own. I liked it, it felt natural and worked with the game as is but before adding the mod I saw one note about the core points talking about all the ships fitting in the sector. I see what that was talking about because in vanilla when I was camping out at the station the other factions would fight in my front yard and between the spent asteroids, the derelict ships and the 6 other asteroid bases that kept randomly spawning there for some reason, the sector would get so full that all the ships would overlap and a bunch of really weird stuff happens, like any tiles in that docking zone around the other ship will kill your plants and people will be fine walking down the hall then randomly read as being in the vaccum of space so I actually see that argument.
However, I see your argument for all ships fit in sector and I raise you one "why are the sectors so tiny?" as well as a "why are completely stripped and scrapped derelicts as well as bare asteroids permanent?" with a little bit of "why is there 6 civilian repair stations in the same sector?" and I think with how well the game runs and how great it feels to play now after all the updates over the years, making the sectors a bit bigger in general seems sensible. I think the amount of stuff in them as is, is perfect, but the tactical map makes me laugh. All that really matters is that you pick a side or a corner and try to always position yourself there but even then it doesn't have to be perfect as long as you keep your airlock to a side on the edge. The sectors are so small that there really is no value to much tactics outside of put all of your point defense on the left and glue your ship to the right boundary. The resources are so close by that I don't feel compelled to position for them, and sure it affects trade but not nearly as much as logistics. Making the sector bigger seems sensible and would solve alot of the things from my perspective, even if the resource spots and places I can park are still restricted to the current area but if it's full and the pirates want to party they could "approach" in that extended zone, just as an idea, but it would also help capture that vastness of space and make the rouge bots chasing my poor mining pods home that much more exciting. I also don't understand why completely bare derelicts can't be disposed of, like could we initiate some process to push them out of the sector that costs resources or blast em but it be a crime to most factions or something. I don't think removing their indexes from the save file manually is healthy but nothing has gotten mad at me for it yet.
But what I can say after installing the mod and having too many of them, I do wish that I had earned them somehow. I also think with the larger sectors that the 3x3 canvas should be viable. I promise not to complain about the other points because I think that the compromise by having the 3x3 canvas is the perfect balance of yes I get more sys points but I risk making it big and lumbering and most of those points going into shields and hull stability. I'm just saying that it balances itself but having added the mod mid playthrough after I had gotten fat happy and rich and put the merchants out of business I felt like I had earned my big 3x3 monstrosity and with all the feedback i've seen combined with the fortune I've had feeling like I earned the effects of a mod I'd say is a really good sign that that could be a great compromise and locking the 3x3 behind research or all of the canvases for that matter would be another cool way to allow those big dream fleets to exist if the core points could be rewarded through some ingame mechanic. The emergent gameplay from that has changed the vibe all my little guys with hopes and dreams have been reduced to being sorted by shirt color but overall the devs should be proud of the wonderful experience I've had with this run and I think that is something to capitalize on.
I'm liking most of the new additions and features but you've either removed or significantly limited other features. Please bring back the things you can add to the current game design before your 1.0 release.
The system points are there mostly for ship-to-ship battles, keeping that balanced. Without a system like this it really is just about building more turrets than the enemy and winning every battle that way.
The reason for power nodes also needing system points: Power and power nodes are part of ship-to-ship combat, as power is vital in how turrets function and they can even run out of power. This essentially means that power nodes and power batteries play a part in the firepower of a ship.
We did spend a lot of time trying to not have these kinds of points but it would be very hard to accomplish. The NPC ships would probably need to adapt within every playthrough somehow to give some kind of challenge to the player.
Industry facilities are not directly part of ship-to-ship combat, and thus do not need to take a system point. Though, indirectly they will need more power from generators to function. Their balance lies more in the space they take aboard the ship, along with heat generation and things like that.
Long post! =) I think we have a tad bigger sector space coming up in the next update once we get our unstable branch updated again soon.
We can also think about if it would be fit to go a bump higher on the canvas to a max of 3x3. Its' not only about space taken but also about the distances within the ship and how it affects crew member behavior and basically everything that happens within a ship that way.
Having overwhelming firepower is still more than possible, since a dedicated combat ships can field an excessive amount of turrets by cutting out unnecessary production and power distribution.
Additionally, a self-inflicted component of the problem of S2S balance is that defenses are significantly reduced as hull mass increases. I understand the reasoning behind this, but it's led to a situation where a purpose-built 2x1 or 3x1 ship can easily dismantle multiple larger ships at the same time because a player can simply snipe hull and power nodes in enemy ships before the enemy can get far enough through the comparatively stronger shields of a monitor-style ship (read: "undersized" and "overgunned") to get reliable penetration.
Ultimately, I do suspect that the issue of S2S balance will require either more optimal layouts for NPC ship designs to be added to the current roster or some level of dynamic changes to designs to be implemented, so that more dangerous variants of NPC ships can start showing up based on whatever criteria are desired. Or, of course, the issue can be ignored. Perfectionism is the bane of deadlines, after all.
Certainly. Part of or philosophy has been to make it so that it's not all too easily possible to make a ship that does everything well. If it is heavy on industry then it makes sense it is not the best battleship out there. More space means more hull to defend for hull stabilizers and shields.
If it is smaller and just focuses on turrets and power then it makes sense that it is essentially a battleship.
We've tried to focus on these kinds of things to make designing ships more interesting. As we have to weight the pros and cons of the facilities and space we put on the ship. Specializing in something means having to let go of something else. We've wanted this to enable various playthrough thinking about different styles, maybe one playthrough with battleship focused ships, other with industry focused and having to flee from ship combat more often, crew combat focused and so on.
The balance is very hard to get perfect. In the end we do compromises where we see it fit if we see it benefits gameplay in the end.
There's so many intertwined systems in this game that even discussing of each of them affect each other starts to take hours real quick. =)
You mention the 3x3 canvas and the distances of the ship affecting crew behavior and I am actually curious because I made an obnoxious mobile platform on a 3x3 canvas and to keep it simple it's pretty much a gigantic square spanning the whole canvas. It's big it's fragile and I love it. I have never actually encountered any issues with tasks or pathing and I even went out of my way to make it boarding proof by making the distances to travel to specific places within the ship as long as possible so I feel that I would be a prime candidate to run into the issues you are referring to. Can you clarify what the issues are so I can keep an eye out for them? I wonder if it's a possibility that I negated those issues with the sheer size of my crew? If that were the case I would say that it sounds like the game balancing itself to me if you make a ship too big for your crew to navigate
In general just walking distances from A to B, carrying boxes and executing tasks. These start taking longer as the ship grows in size, but of course it also depends on the design of the ship.
Part of the game with such a big ship would be to think about design and probably use logistics bots or bigger crews. So it becomes a problem to solve for the player, which ultimately is a good thing as it gives design challenges to tackle.
Where it may get trickier is if a player does not really understand the downsides with long distances and wonders why their small crew is not doing things. So it could require some more checks and notifications perhaps.
The best way to test it is indeed to build a full square on that 3x3 and let us know if it works, or if there are any surprising issues. If you have such a ship and it is still working well then that is good to know! =)
1) When entering a sector, put one of your ships in the lower 3x3 undeployed section
2) Change the Ship Canvas Type to a larger ship
3) Deploy your larger ship in the system
4) Without changing the hull size, add additional system cores
5) Enter a new sector, put the edited ship in the lower 3x3 undeployed section
6) Change the Ship Canvas Type to the original ship's size
After these steps, The edited ship will have additional system points. The Core Points Available for that ship will be negative, but it will not affect the number of Core Points when adding additional ships, claiming derelicts, or modifying other ships.
It might also be doable on non-unstable builds, but it might also be a bug that will get fixed eventually