system point

[-=kirito*48=-]

i think the system point is stupid i can't build my dream ship only 11 point of system thats not enough or do have away to get more system point if not i'm ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up

[PocketAces]

Agreed, it limits your ship design due to limited placement of hull stabilizers and that advanced power nodes cost system points.

[Ycofish]

yes, hull stabilizers limit scope is too big

[aksel_bugbyte]

You get more system points by building more hull stabilizer. The base (A ship without a stabilizer) is 3 system points, and each Hull Stabilizer gives 8 more.

As examples. The largest ship can have 51 system points, and the default 2x2 ship 35 system points.

While more facilities require system points in Alpha 14 the changes allow for more system points and more ship-to-ship battle facilities than compared to Alpha 13.

Only certain facilities need a power node, most facilities do not need to be under a power node at all (As they only need basic power). So it is not needed to build many power nodes.

Generators are also very effective compared to their 1 system point, not many are needed of these either to supply facilities with advanced power.

[PocketAces]

Originally posted by aksel_bugbyte:

You get more system points by building more hull stabilizer. The base (A ship without a stabilizer) is 3 system points, and each Hull Stabilizer gives 8 more.

As examples. The largest ship can have 51 system points, and the default 2x2 ship 35 system points.

True, but to maximize the hull stabilizers you have to build a very boring square ship, the ship I have designed is size 2x2 (6400), taking 4 engines to power, maximum hull stabilizers is 3 due to the way I've designed my ship, and I had to change the design to do that, now my ship doesn't look anything like I envisioned it to be. I have 2 shield generators, 3 laser turrets, just built two auto-turrets, which i had to change the ship design to fit.

Now if I put the engines all together I could get one more system point, but I have envisioned the engines being two on each side in a nancel type of arrangement.

I guess what we are trying to say, the new system is limiting, limits the ship design, limits the system points and taking away the creativity of designing a cool looking ship.

[Xautos]

don't really like the square exclusion zone around the stabiliser, could there be a different means to pay the price, like a lengthy research of hull stabilisers and the more you research the more expensive it gets on research resources and time?

for example right away you wouldn't consider researching for a second stabiliser after you get one free and only needs building with the resources on hand. the second requires a bit more investment and knowing where to put it in the research queue.

the system points i'm happy with though.

[aksel_bugbyte]

Originally posted by PocketAces:

Originally posted by aksel_bugbyte:

You get more system points by building more hull stabilizer. The base (A ship without a stabilizer) is 3 system points, and each Hull Stabilizer gives 8 more.

As examples. The largest ship can have 51 system points, and the default 2x2 ship 35 system points.

True, but to maximize the hull stabilizers you have to build a very boring square ship, the ship I have designed is size 2x2 (6400), taking 4 engines to power, maximum hull stabilizers is 3 due to the way I've designed my ship, and I had to change the design to do that, now my ship doesn't look anything like I envisioned it to be. I have 2 shield generators, 3 laser turrets, just built two auto-turrets, which i had to change the ship design to fit.

Now if I put the engines all together I could get one more system point, but I have envisioned the engines being two on each side in a nancel type of arrangement.

I guess what we are trying to say, the new system is limiting, limits the ship design, limits the system points and taking away the creativity of designing a cool looking ship.

There are some limitations, but not to the degree one might expect. All the NPC ships are designed using the same rules. Same for the stations. (Derelicts are randomly generated, but the "alive" ones are all designed using the same rules)

A square ship is not needed, as it is actually possible to build "tentacles" to achieve another hull stabilizer. (Not that this is completely optimal either).

If there is to be any resemblance of balance and strategy in ship-to-ship battles there needs to be restrictions, not to mention the UI which now already becomes very bloated with so many turrets possible.

A thought of what one could think of as ideal: Let the restrictions come from building itself sounds good at first, but when inspected further it still means some type of restrictions in the end (E.G. High need for power -> Many generators -> A lot of space -> Square ships)

[Hydromel90]

Originally posted by PocketAces:

True, but to maximize the hull stabilizers you have to build a very boring square ship

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2753418735

[PocketAces]

It's easy to design a ship when you are in a free build, I've also seen some of the interior of the NPC ships, not very attractive, I must say, I like my ships clean with all the power and what not in power rooms, it's the designer in me, and we don't want randoms touching power nodes! :)

I don't want tentacles, but I'm being forced to have tentacles. (Not being able to design the ship "I" want.)

Part of the allure of this game is being able to design and build ships, ship combat was a side note, and quite frankly it should stay that way, but seems that's not the case which is a shame.

A compromise would be to reduce the area of influence for the hull stabilizer and reduce the system points you get for it, or remove required system points for power nodes and increase for the power capacitor and/ or hyper-drives or some other happy medium.

Edit: or, have system points and weapon points, and put weapons in it's own category.
System points take hyperdrives, power generators, system consoles and power nodes into account and weapons, well it's as it says.

[PocketAces]

Originally posted by Hydromel90:

Originally posted by PocketAces:

True, but to maximize the hull stabilizers you have to build a very boring square ship

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2753418735

Are you using this as a counter to my point or proving my point. That is one ugly ship!

[Xautos]

Originally posted by PocketAces:

Originally posted by Hydromel90:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2753418735

That is one ugly ship!

precisely why i wonder if there could be another way paying a price instead of the exclusion zone around stabilisers. it's quite prohibitive. one can create a lovely design of a ship without having to add a pickaxe shape to the front of the ship.

[PocketAces]

Originally posted by Xautos:

Originally posted by PocketAces:

That is one ugly ship!

precisely why i wonder if there could be another way paying a price instead of the exclusion zone around stabilisers. it's quite prohibitive. one can create a lovely design of a ship without having to add a pickaxe shape to the front of the ship.

Very well put. Hopefully the devs will think of something, cause I really like this game.

[munners42]

A 3x2 area with 6 stabilisers for 51 points - doesn't have to be a box.
the only deviation from the original design was to widen the forward struts to the flight pods to fit in the hull stabilisers (admittedly it doesn't help that the stabiliser area is not centered - i think its 12 squares on two sides and 13 on the other two - but other than that it works fine)
of course you can always mod the area to allow more space to put more stabilisers if you want a bigger ship or a ship with nacelles etc.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2753511255

[aksel_bugbyte]

We can see with time if there are other additional possibilities!

@munners42. Fantastic. Thank you for showing your ship. =)

[munners42]

Originally posted by aksel_bugbyte:

We can see with time if there are other additional possibilities!

@munners42. Fantastic. Thank you for showing your ship. =)

Thanks :)

It took a while to figure out the new power system, but i got there in the end!

[Xautos]

Originally posted by aksel_bugbyte:

We can see with time if there are other additional possibilities!

I don't mean to be demanding, i mean, if you believe the hull stabilisers and their exclusion zone are meant to be part of what you imagined through the whole thing, then i'll work around it. But if you think there could be an adjustment to make without going out of your way to mess up your own internal deadlines. perhaps instead cutting the exclusion zone 25% or 50% of what it is, that way you still need them far enough apart and still provide some good designs.

I typically frown on the idea of copying other designs like battlestars and federation starships or star wars rebellion ships.