World Generating Snow-Covered Region

[MASTER CHEEKS]

Besides changing the minimum and maximum temperatures, how would one go about creating a snow covered world? What parameters would I need to set the min/max temps and temperature-x/temperature-y variants and the poles in order to get a snow covered world? I don't really want it to be absolutely freezing, just cold enough for there to be snow everywhere so I can settle anywhere instead of needing to be somewhere remote away from every other civ to be in a snow zone.

[MASTER CHEEKS]

I feel like this game has the least intuitive world gen design I've ever seen in a colony sim... I guess I've just been enjoying the default world gen settings so much I never realized how bad it really is if you want something simple.

[Lord Strong]

when making a world you can look it over with a mouse and find the coolest spot you want. i had troubles with getting snow when i wanted green not other way around but i guess my tastes could change.

[MASTER CHEEKS]

Originally posted by Lord Strong:

when making a world you can look it over with a mouse and find the coolest spot you want. i had troubles with getting snow when i wanted green not other way around but i guess my tastes could change.

I understand that if I hover over the tile on the world map while embarking it'll tell me what temperature the zone is, but what I'm looking to make the entire world snow covered not just one region because I don't want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere in a snow region without any neighbors/civilizations nearby. I would like the entire world to be covered in snow so I can actually choose to embark anywhere and there will be snow. Now if the solution was just to change min/max temperatures I would understand that, but it's not. I want the entire world to have be "cold" and have snow-covered tiles.

[MASTER CHEEKS]

I also realize that if it is too cold most civilizations will cease to exist, and I won't even be able to leave the fortress because of frostbite. So I'm looking for the specific parameters for an entirely habitable "Cold" (defined by the game, not by me) snow-covered world.

[McFuzz]

Originally posted by 😘MАSTЕR CHЕЕKS 😍:

I feel like this game has the least intuitive world gen design I've ever seen in a colony sim... I guess I've just been enjoying the default world gen settings so much I never realized how bad it really is if you want something simple.

Fixed. Now it's correct.
We love it tho. Bless this mess.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by 😘MАSTЕR CHЕЕKS 😍:

I feel like this game has the least intuitive world gen design I've ever seen in a colony sim... I guess I've just been enjoying the default world gen settings so much I never realized how bad it really is if you want something simple.

The world-gen is excellent.

The issue is that "what you want" is not necessarily what the game was designed to be able to generate.

The game's simulation and how things work is a lot more reliant on certain variables that you'd think it would be in any other game.

So, if you generated such a world, what happens to the variables effected by Temperature? A snow-covered World requires a dangerous life-threatening absence of heat. Variables set to depend on temperature are going to get confused, I'd think.

Other games do this because they don't model such things. I don't know how deep worldgen variables like that go, but if worldgen is anything like gameplay, they are very important.

https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:World_generation#Map_generation

Read it. Where is the run-off going to start if all the water is frozen?

There might be mods out there that can do what you want. I dunno, maybe there are. It could happen. And, more mod capability will be added as things progress, so you may eventually be able to get what you want.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106392.0

There's an "advanced" generator mod/whatsits out there, according to posts in that thread, so maybe you can get something like that eventually.

[MASTER CHEEKS]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Originally posted by 😘MАSTЕR CHЕЕKS 😍:

I feel like this game has the least intuitive world gen design I've ever seen in a colony sim... I guess I've just been enjoying the default world gen settings so much I never realized how bad it really is if you want something simple.

The world-gen is excellent.

The issue is that "what you want" is not necessarily what the game was designed to be able to generate.

The game's simulation and how things work is a lot more reliant on certain variables that you'd think it would be in any other game.

So, if you generated such a world, what happens to the variables effected by Temperature? A snow-covered World requires a dangerous life-threatening absence of heat. Variables set to depend on temperature are going to get confused, I'd think.

Other games do this because they don't model such things. I don't know how deep worldgen variables like that go, but if worldgen is anything like gameplay, they are very important.

https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:World_generation#Map_generation

Read it. Where is the run-off going to start if all the water is frozen?

There might be mods out there that can do what you want. I dunno, maybe there are. It could happen. And, more mod capability will be added as things progress, so you may eventually be able to get what you want.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106392.0

There's an "advanced" generator mod/whatsits out there, according to posts in that thread, so maybe you can get something like that eventually.

Please don't mince my words, I didn't say the world gen wasn't excellent. It's just not intuitive for most people. The average layman who tries out the game isn't going to scroll through fifty options that have no explanations for what they are only to be led to wikipedia articles and forum posts from a decade ago. I'm only looking for what is usually easily possible in many other simulators, but is widely over complicated in this game for seemingly no apparent reason.

[MASTER CHEEKS]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Originally posted by 😘MАSTЕR CHЕЕKS 😍:

I feel like this game has the least intuitive world gen design I've ever seen in a colony sim... I guess I've just been enjoying the default world gen settings so much I never realized how bad it really is if you want something simple.

The world-gen is excellent.

The issue is that "what you want" is not necessarily what the game was designed to be able to generate.

The game's simulation and how things work is a lot more reliant on certain variables that you'd think it would be in any other game.

So, if you generated such a world, what happens to the variables effected by Temperature? A snow-covered World requires a dangerous life-threatening absence of heat. Variables set to depend on temperature are going to get confused, I'd think.

Other games do this because they don't model such things. I don't know how deep worldgen variables like that go, but if worldgen is anything like gameplay, they are very important.

https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:World_generation#Map_generation

Read it. Where is the run-off going to start if all the water is frozen?

There might be mods out there that can do what you want. I dunno, maybe there are. It could happen. And, more mod capability will be added as things progress, so you may eventually be able to get what you want.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106392.0

There's an "advanced" generator mod/whatsits out there, according to posts in that thread, so maybe you can get something like that eventually.

God forbid I ask for the least amount of advice doing the most simplest of world generation settings you can do with two option changes in most other world generators. If you need to mod the game in order for it to do simple tasks then perhaps it's a problem with the interface and not the consumer? I mean it's not like they spent a decade retrofitting this game, taking away features and releasing it as basically just an updated sprite set with less features and modability than the free version? Oh, that's what they did?

[McFuzz]

Originally posted by 😘MАSTЕR CHЕЕKS 😍:

I mean it's not like they spent a decade retrofitting this game, taking away features and releasing it as basically just an updated sprite set with less features and modability than the free version? Oh, that's what they did?

Technically they only spent 2-4 years doing that

[MASTER CHEEKS]

Originally posted by Frank McFuzz:

Originally posted by 😘MАSTЕR CHЕЕKS 😍:

I mean it's not like they spent a decade retrofitting this game, taking away features and releasing it as basically just an updated sprite set with less features and modability than the free version? Oh, that's what they did?

Technically they only spent 2-4 years doing that

Definitely worth the $30 for what is basically what was previously a free tileset with more bugs than the free version without much if any quality of life improvements. Infact some things are actually way more monotonous to do than they are in the free version for apparently no logical purpose other than that the dev thought it would be a good idea to over complicate the process. And yet even asking simple questions from the community you're met with disdain as though you've just heaved in their breakfast cereal.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by 😘MАSTЕR CHЕЕKS 😍:

God forbid I ask for the least amount of advice doing the most simplest of world generation settings you can do with two option changes in most other world generators.

There' aren't any combo-moves for Dorfs and you can't capture megabeasties with Pokeballs... you gonna complain about that, too? (Well, you sort of can and you can maybe make them fight, too. Does that cheer you up?)

/sigh

Look...

This is not "those other games." Those other games aren't even "those other games." Yet, you want something to do what you want it to do, but it wasn't designed to do, so very darn bad you're willing to insult and complain about not getting it...

The game is designed to generate a world that operates on a set of conditions that does not easily support the thing you want and, if it did, it could not present good play conditions without the entire ruleset that the game uses to generate that world needing to be... completely redone.

Yet, you can see that's true if you bother to look, but will still complain and hurl insults just because you aren't getting the thing you want. Well, gee, that's too bad.... I feel really bad for you. Seriously, you are gaining so very much sympathy for your plight, right now... probably.

If you need to mod the game in order for it to do simple tasks then perhaps it's a problem with the interface and not the consumer? I mean it's not like they spent a decade retrofitting this game, taking away features and releasing it as basically just an updated sprite set with less features and modability than the free version? Oh, that's what they did?

And, there ya go, just insulting, making accusations about the game and suggesting bad things, conspiracies, blah, blah, blah.

Why?

You may be able to get what you want eventually, but it will likely come in the form of a mod, if at all. And, if so, do not expect the same level of play experience. The game is more "realistic" than "those other games." That's why it can't easily do what you want it to do.

If you can't deal with that, go yell at the wall. You will likely have more success.

[MASTER CHEEKS]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Originally posted by 😘MАSTЕR CHЕЕKS 😍:

God forbid I ask for the least amount of advice doing the most simplest of world generation settings you can do with two option changes in most other world generators.

There' aren't any combo-moves for Dorfs and you can't capture megabeasties with Pokeballs... you gonna complain about that, too? (Well, you sort of can and you can maybe make them fight, too. Does that cheer you up?)

/sigh

Look...

This is not "those other games." Those other games aren't even "those other games." Yet, you want something to do what you want it to do, but it wasn't designed to do, so very darn bad you're willing to insult and complain about not getting it...

The game is designed to generate a world that operates on a set of conditions that does not easily support the thing you want and, if it did, it could not present good play conditions without the entire ruleset that the game uses to generate that world needing to be... completely redone.

Yet, you can see that's true if you bother to look, but will still complain and hurl insults just because you aren't getting the thing you want. Well, gee, that's too bad.... I feel really bad for you. Seriously, you are gaining so very much sympathy for your plight, right now... probably.

If you need to mod the game in order for it to do simple tasks then perhaps it's a problem with the interface and not the consumer? I mean it's not like they spent a decade retrofitting this game, taking away features and releasing it as basically just an updated sprite set with less features and modability than the free version? Oh, that's what they did?

And, there ya go, just insulting, making accusations about the game and suggesting bad things, conspiracies, blah, blah, blah.

Why?

You may be able to get what you want eventually, but it will likely come in the form of a mod, if at all. And, if so, do not expect the same level of play experience. The game is more "realistic" than "those other games." That's why it can't easily do what you want it to do.

If you can't deal with that, go yell at the wall. You will likely have more success.

How is anything I said conspiratorial when there are definitively more features in the free version and more mods than the one they're charging you $30 for? You realize with Stonesense and Lazy Newb Pack it's basically almost the same game right? With way less bugs in general. It's almost like you're so lost in the koolaid you've lost grasp of reality.

[Murderer Drug Dealer]

Don't try to reason with the DF zealots OP. They like DF because they relate to dwarves too much (neckbeards, living in basements, throwing temper tantrums etc.)

[hexis]

You could probably generate a tundra/glacier world pretty easily by lowering the min/max temperatures and setting all "minimum [biome] squares" (except maybe tundra & glacier) and "minimum [rainfall/drainage etc.] squares" to 0 to prevent rejections, but you might not get any suitable locations for other civilizations if your world is just one big icefield.

I generated a few medium worlds as a test and had decent luck getting more cold/freezing areas without eliminating biome diversity by making a one-pole world with the following settings changed: min/max temps of -10 and 10, 4x4 rain mesh of 1:1:1:3:5, 4x4 temp mesh of 2:5:2:1:1, 4000 / 1000 / 2000 minimum initial forest/glacier/tundra squares respectively and 4000/5000 minimum high-rain/high-drainage squares respectively with all other "minimum square/region" values set to 0 (well, except oceans). (The forest, rain and drainage settings are mostly there because i wanted to try generating more taigas.)

So you could use something similar as a baseline and then tinker with those values further or add/remove meshes to take it in whatever direction you'd prefer. The Advanced worldgen article in the DF wiki someone linked above explains how the meshes work. You may also find the Biome[www.dwarffortresswiki.org] article helpful if want to try generating more cold/freezing biomes other than glacier/tundra, it has some information on how drainage/rainfall/temp values affect them.

[MASTER CHEEKS]

Originally posted by hexis:

You could probably generate a tundra/glacier world pretty easily by lowering the min/max temperatures and setting all "minimum [biome] squares" (except maybe tundra & glacier) and "minimum [rainfall/drainage etc.] squares" to 0 to prevent rejections, but you might not get any suitable locations for other civilizations if your world is just one big icefield.

I generated a few medium worlds as a test and had decent luck getting more cold/freezing areas without eliminating biome diversity by making a one-pole world with the following settings changed: min/max temps of -10 and 10, 4x4 rain mesh of 1:1:1:3:5, 4x4 temp mesh of 2:5:2:1:1, 4000 / 1000 / 2000 minimum initial forest/glacier/tundra squares respectively and 4000/5000 minimum high-rain/high-drainage squares respectively with all other "minimum square/region" values set to 0 (well, except oceans). (The forest, rain and drainage settings are mostly there because i wanted to try generating more taigas.)

So you could use something similar as a baseline and then tinker with those values further or add/remove meshes to take it in whatever direction you'd prefer. The Advanced worldgen article in the DF wiki someone linked above explains how the meshes work. You may also find the Biome[www.dwarffortresswiki.org] article helpful if want to try generating more cold/freezing biomes other than glacier/tundra, it has some information on how drainage/rainfall/temp values affect them.

These settings work perfectly. thank you. Managed to generate one of the most interesting worlds I've seen in awhile with giant frozen lakes, huge swathes of Taigas and even a few volcanoes sprinkled in. And mostly every type of civilization managed to live through the cold.