Is it normal for the game to show rejects after generating a new map?

[GrimmKnightt]

I ask this because I got this game a few months after release on steam and it didn't show rejects then. Not sure it even rejected generations or not but if it did I don't remember it showing them. Checked update logs and found nothing about it. Help will be much appreciated because I'm being driven to madness.

[76561188078797539]

Yes, even with optimized settings from Custom World you'll get a lot of reject log entries.

There's a lot of complexity to WorldGen, and it tries to give you as many options as possible. Different species, as a quick example, require different terrain predominant in individual regions. Those in themselves are on a sliding scale of size, so things get difficult to normalize very, very quickly.

Even default settings can result in a high number of rejections if the RNG seeds are against you.

Wouldn't worry too much about it, unless you're entering manually through Custom Worldgen - in which case, it helps to narrow down the reason for it.

[GrimmKnightt]

Thanks for the response. I think I understand but what I don't get was when I first got DF it DIDN'T show the rejects. I came back to it after a few months and now it DOES show rejects. That's the part I'm confused about. I wondered perhaps the devs added that feature with an update but I didn't find it mentioned while looking through the update logs.

[AlP]

Originally posted by GrimmKnightt:

when I first got DF it DIDN'T show the rejects.

That's not very likely, you probably didn't notice. Even with good settings there were always rejected worlds, before and after Steam release.

[GrimmKnightt]

I've considered that I didn't notice as well, but I went back and watched a tutorial video on how to get started on DF that I watched to learn the ropes and at around 2:30 the video is showing the generation process and the rejects are not there. The person who uploaded the video is called Nookrum(?) or something like that. I'd have to confirm that though.

[AlP]

I just checked 50.08 (from last May), and it was showing rejected worlds as it did before Steam release.

What probably happened in your case is that you started to use settings that are not ideal, instead of the default ones which are more optimized. I imagine Nookrium just went with the default ones.

Maybe you lowered the number of civilizations or sites, which can easily cause a rejection if too many civs die out. If you also increased the savagery and beasts, that would contribute to their deaths.

[76561188078797539]

Originally posted by GrimmKnightt:

what I don't get was when I first got DF it DIDN'T show the rejects.

I'm just going to pile on what AIP wrote and say that I've been getting worldgen rejection errors on default settings since I started playing.

And I've played all the public versions.

[GrimmKnightt]

That could be it. I have been decreasing civilizations and sites. I guess I didn't do that to at first. I've stuck with the generation parameters that Nookrium went with since I'm still kinda new to it and must've forgotten that he didn't do that. I don't know much about this stuff but I assume that rejections are still possible (though with a smaller chance) even with default parameters?

[AlP]

Yes, the world is simulated and with any parameters something may go in a direction that the game will reject.

You shouldn't worry about it, though. Worlds rejections are completely expected. Worlds can be made even with completely wild parameters in custom worldgen, even though a lot of them will be nuked.

[GrimmKnightt]

Tested it and I managed to generate some with no rejects if I didn't mess with civilizations and sites. At last, it's a relief to have an answer to this. Thanks to you both for your contribution to this strange case!

[76561188078797539]

Originally posted by GrimmKnightt:

if I didn't mess with civilizations and sites.

Both civs and sites require specific combination of terrain and biome, as well as dispersal on the global map, so setting it above what can be accommodated will inevitably pull a reject.

Goblin civs tend to be ignored in that, usually they aren't just placed and instead it's dorfs/elves/humans that get put in their place. And nobody remembers kobolds can form steal a civilization.

Keep messing with the settings, this is how you get to the good stuff :)

[GrimmKnightt]

I don't even know how capable the generation is. I'll be sticking with simple settings for now. Perhaps at some point I'll feel brave enough to do something insane.

[Stellar Remnant]

Originally posted by GrimmKnightt:

I ask this because I got this game a few months after release on steam and it didn't show rejects then. Not sure it even rejected generations or not but if it did I don't remember it showing them. Checked update logs and found nothing about it. Help will be much appreciated because I'm being driven to madness.

If it generated something successfully, the rejects are absolutely nothing to worry about. Just means how many tries it took to comply with the parameters.

[76561188078797539]

Originally posted by GrimmKnightt:

I don't even know how capable the generation is. I'll be sticking with simple settings for now. Perhaps at some point I'll feel brave enough to do something insane.

This page[dwarffortresswiki.org] has pretty much everything you need to understand the generalities involved.

If you want to get into deeper variable control, the official forum has plenty of information, even if it's spread across hundreds of threads. Doesn't help that things occasionally get tweaked, and the complexity involved results in a cascade of changes-by-proxy in generation behavior.

I'll freely admit, though, I probably spent more time messing with worldgen than I do playing some games from start to finish, heh.

Give it a whirl, nothing to be afraid of there.

[Aradar]

the world generator is pretty complex and most of the options terms used don't help, it took me a good while of tinkering to generate desert worlds and the settings for them fail a lot and sometimes crash the game entirely :D.

[GrimmKnightt]

This discussion is receiving a lot more interaction and contribution than I expected. I'm learning a lot about this amazing game from this thread alone. Thanks to all who are sharing their knowledge and thoughts. This community is awesome!