Armor explanation

[qrb613]

I searched here and have read the wiki and still don't 100% understand armor.

I know that material type matters a lot when a strike occurs and armor is hit. Steel should greatly reduce a strike from a lesser metal weapon such as copper while a steel weapon should easily damage a copper armored enemy.

Armor quality is supposed to increase the chances of the armor deflecting the strike, with masterwork armor being twice as likely to deflect as normal. This part confuses me. What specifically happens when it deflects?

Coverage and layering make sense and the wiki has a nice guide on this. I'm currently training my guys with what I consider recruit armor. I'm using steel mail with a few extra pieces added on as they train up. The weight causes issues when I armor them heavily right out of the gate. whats happening more often than not is unarmored civilians are losing legs, hands, etc and this is making them almost useless to me so I send them on suicide missions to get rid of them. I'm considering putting everyone in a squad and at least providing them some lightweight armor.

[Fel]

When a hit is deflected it doesn't directly injure the one wearing the armor.
Usually the force behind the attack can still cause some damage, especially if the dwarf is weak, but it is nowhere near as bad as an attack going through.


For lightweight armor, it should only be a problem early on, but if you want them to gain levels in the armor skill, consider not giving them a shield for a while.
It is not a good idea if they are going to be fighting real enemies of course, since parrying with a shield is the best "defense" there is (even better than dodging since dodging can cause some issues like falling off a cliff or in a river).

It is too late to do it when they are already good at fighting because they tend to grow attached to their shield (and weapon) and refuse to let go of them.
For the same reason, you should avoid using lighter shields variants (thankfully shield material doesn't matter so you can do it with lighter metals or even leather).


Once you have some well trained dwarves (especially if you plan on armoring all civilians as well), you might want to consider using some of those veterans as teachers for new recruits and civilians (training together in the same squad).
The skill gains from being taught are really quick, and it gets even better as the teacher gains levels in the teaching skill as well.

[AlP]

Only use strong dwarves in the military. They can equip a full set of armor with minimal penalty, and a full steel armor will make them nearly unkillable.

Forget partial armor, it's useless. The combat mechanics make strikes against unarmored body parts much easier.

It's also essential is to not let them fight alone. Wait for at least several dwarves to gather before you let them engage an enemy.

[Fel]

Also note that any dwarf could become a "strong dwarf" if trained properly, all physical stats can be raised and the limit is based on the species.
Strength or agility are stats you kind of want to train for everyone anyway, maybe not to the extent of making a full on training for them like you would for military dwarves of course.

[qrb613]

Nice. How exactly do you train those attributes? I'd assume that running around wearing armor, hauling, and mining would help. Any info on how that works?

[qrb613]

https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Attribute Actually this seems to explain it pretty well.

[Fel]

It gives you the base data, this page has more practical examples of how to setup a training "camp" for your dwarves based on what you want to increase (and what you want to get done):
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Cross-training

I usually use siege operator (or pump operator before this version) for strength training.

Mining works quite well as well, and you can make a squad for ex-miners using pickaxes as their weapon (not active miners because the pickaxe for mining interferes with military equipment).
You end up with newbies that are already beyond legendary in their weapon skill and pretty decent srars except for agility.

[AlP]

Just let the dwarves train in the barracks, that trains their attributes the fastest.

[qrb613]

This is helpful. The game is a lot more detailed than a typical game. I'm bouncing between this and our other conversation and learning as I go. Thanks for taking the time to explain this stuff to me. This game seems to have a great fan base.

I checked some armor weights in game trying to make some intermediate load outs as my guys train.

Would you guys consider any particular pieces of armor as a good investment of adamantium if I had a surplus. I've read conflicting opinions but it seems addy is a waste for shields and breastplates. Addy mail may be the best next step after making addy weapons.

[RadCon One]

If you want the bare-minimum / lightest amount of metal armor for your non-dedicated-military dwarves you can get by with a metal cap, chain-mail shirt, metal gauntlets, and metal high boots.

Chain leggings aren't actually required for total coverage, as the parts they cover are already overlapped by the chain-mail shirt and the high-boots.

Having said that, redundant coverage IS better when it comes to your main military anyway though, so for your Ace-combat melee squads you will eventually want to kit them out with a metal helmet, metal chain-mail shirt AND metal breastplate, metal gauntlets, metal greaves, metal high-boots, and finally a metal shield (for most melee builds anyway, though rarely you will have a 2-handed build).

You can also slap on some clothing such as mittens and cloaks for even more protection too, as they also count in armor calculations, and technically you can even lair on some items multiple times for even more coverage, but I find that to be cheezy.

[qrb613]

Nice. The cloaks and such on the outside seem largely useless if made of cloth or leather. There is a caveat though regarding these layers. Every layer robs the blow of 5% of its momentum. That multitude of light outerwear could reduce the effect of the attack by about 1/3rd before it even hits your armor. I also read that you can make them from Addy and that they cover some areas missed by other armor but they degrade and are hard to manage.

My understanding is that layering mail beneath your armor helps soak up the effect of edge weapons that pierce through(The cuts we see in the combat log) and convert them to blunt force. And they can soak up that blunt force as well.

I've read conflicting info about what works best. Against blunt an outer layer of high tier rigid armor helps. The math I'm reading says Addy plate is a bit better than steel against blunt weapons in this case but it wont work miracles. So Id lean toward saying that if addy is scarce it may be best to have 1 addy chain mail under a steel breastplate for edged attacks. If i had it to spare i'd make an addy BP as well, I see no reason not to have both.

The third and fourth inner layer would be there only to mitigate the blunt force spilling through. If you have addy to spare the lightweight would help keep your guy moving but the wiki calcs show it sucks for this purpose.. Density is part of the calc so supposedly copper would be king here.

X amount of cloth outerwear/ steel BP/ Addy Mail/ Copper Mail/Copper Mail. Addy helm, gauntlets, and high boots. Other items as strength allows.

I'll have to see how the weight does. It may not work well this way unless you have strong skilled dwarfs.