Leather vs plant/yarn/silk cloth

[[TNC] Thai Lizard]

What's an ideal use for the different clothing material? So far I put work orders on leather backpacks and quivers, since the only other alternative is adamantine. I'm also making leather clothes, with the intention that if a civilian should get attacked, at least the leather offers some protection. I'm making leather bags, but I'm thinking maybe it's better to make bags with cloth.

What are some good uses for plant/yarn/silk cloth, compared to leather? Is certain clothing better as non-leather?

[Fel]

I like to have a farm for dyes (above ground or underground) as well, not so much for the value but for the overall quality.

It's really funny to see a dwarf being super happy about receiving a stitch on their open would because it was masterfully dyed and even more happy about the dressing that's a masterwork cloth.

I also have a mill or two that are not powered with a waterwheel/windmill but pure dwarf strength, I asign those to dwarves that are stat-training.
It trains strength (primary), agility and endurance while producing something (slowly), dyers also train those stats.
The only downside is that it doesn't train toughness but miner, furnace operator, siege operator and pump operator do so it's fine.

[[TNC] Thai Lizard]

I hadn't really looked at poultry for leather, but looks like blue peafowl could be a good candidate for leather. This is because as a bird that gives bones, it will also give a hide according to the wiki. And it's a non-grazer like the pigs, but 2 advantages with the blue peafowl are the amount of eggs and therefore new butcherables, and it takes 1 year to reach adulthood for the butchering compared to the standard 2 years.

[[TNC] Thai Lizard]

Chickens might be good for the same reason, maybe better if they have more average eggs, but wiki is a bit unclear if chickens take 1 or 2 years to become adults.

[Fel]

Unclear?
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Chicken
Look on the right side, under "age" you have "adult at" (and max age) for all creatures.

[[TNC] Thai Lizard]

For chicken it says 1 year in the poultry list and on the chicken page, yes, but above the poultry list it says: 'ducks, chickens and turkeys reach adolescence at one year and are full-grown after two years.' https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Domestic_animal

[[TNC] Thai Lizard]

I suppose overall, it could be interesting to look not only at growth speed, but also birth rates and litter - and clutch sizes, to get a better estimate of hides/year. I think maybe I read that adolescent animals can give resources when buthered too? Not sure if that is correct and/or outdated.

[Fel]

Maybe there is a difference between "adult" and "full grown", not sure.

[Fel]

So I dug a bit more in the raws (from the wiki) and that's exactly what it it.
The "body_size" tag's first two numbers are for the age (years and days respectively), the third is the size).

The wiki is not clear about the size required to get skin (or meat/bones) but a bigger animal might even get you usable skin before it even reached adulthood.

[Oxy]

I use Dogleather for my Dwarf

[76561188078797539]

Originally posted by TNC Thai Lizard:

I hadn't really looked at poultry for leather

I generally go full-blown turkey farm.

They have a very high return on both food and leather.

Also, doubling back on OP, leather has different performance against attack types than cloth. As with most DF things, you can safely ignore it most of the time, but if you're going !MAXIMUM MUNCHKIN! it's worth knowing.

Stacking leather cloaks was a major thing in adventure mode (not sure how it's now, though), and I had no-skill recruits survive spike trap danger room (that was NOT optimized for survivability on purpose, so actual weapon-grade spikes) simply because they were wearing cloaks instead of armor.

YMMV, this was a few revisions back, but don't think combat calculations changed that much.

Also, having leather production lets you make "armor" for your militia before you get your metalworks up and running (or just for backline archers while frontline gets the metal stuff). Can't make a bunch of applicable pieces with cloth.

So... definitely worth it in my experience.

Especially if you're embarked in a reanimating biome :)

Originally posted by Oxy:

I use Dogleather for my Dwarf

Catleather superior. As anything "cat" is. :)

[Fel]

Cat leather is too risky, if the cats adopt dwarves before being butchered you get bad thoughts all over the place (pretty sure I had a butcher be adopted while bringing a cat to the workshop at some point too).

[76561188078797539]

Originally posted by Fel:

Cat leather is too risky, if the cats adopt dwarves before being butchered you get bad thoughts all over the place (pretty sure I had a butcher be adopted while bringing a cat to the workshop at some point too).

I've yet have it happen ever, and I always embark with cats (dogs, not so much). My cats are on vermin patrol in designated areas that see a lot of traffic through them, as well, but RNG be RNGing, I guess.

The scene of what you described is pretty hilarious, though.

UristMcButcher: "Time for the chopping block, Mittens, we need leather."
Mittens: *UwU*
UMcB: "I hate this job."

[BlackCockDown]

Originally posted by Sheepify:

Also, having leather production lets you make "armor" for your militia before you get your metalworks up and running (or just for backline archers while frontline gets the metal stuff). Can't make a bunch of applicable pieces with cloth.

Extra style points if your dwarfs wear leather cloaks over metal armour.

[76561188078797539]

Originally posted by BlackCockDown:

Extra style points if your dwarfs wear leather cloaks over metal armour.

Not just style points, those are lighter than cloth alternative.

I haven't seen any serious !SCIENCE! done on the difference between respective protective qualities, though. Probably mostly because it's not as pronounced as to be a) important, aside from theorycrafting, b) causing statistically noticeable difference.

From what I recall leather is expected (nobody knows the actual code, so it's all guesswork) to perform better against blunt and possibly piercing damage, whereas cloth is assumed to be just a tiny bit better against slashing damage. The difference in values in the raws isn't that great to begin with (as compared to other materials), and... well, without knowing actual code behind the calculations it's all pure speculation anyway.

Weight does come into play often enough (even without layer stacking), though, so leather works much better in that respect.

[BlackCockDown]

Originally posted by Sheepify:

Not just style points, those are lighter than cloth alternative.

Well for one you will be using your metal armor to actually tank hits and not your cloak. I'm tempted to include cloth clothing under the metal just to roleplay comfortable attire but it doubles the amount of clicking, so a cloak is the best I'm settling for.