Dwarf Simulating Instrument while in Tavern with Placed Instrument

[smol-wittle-debil]

Any idea why this might be happening? I have a group of 4 dwarfs, 1 reciting poetry and 3 simulating instruments. One of those instruments is a large one the you need to place with b -> f -> i, and that instrument is placed in the very tavern this performance is occurring. The other two instruments are ones that are stored in chests (I think). I have 5 stored instruments, but I am not exactly sure if they correspond with the other two the dwarfs are simulating, though I looked in my stocks and I do have them in my fort.

Is there a mechanic I am missing or engaging with wrong? Its a large tavern and the dwarf is not near where the instrument is placed, does that matter? I know some "performances" need a certain amount of space to take place. I thought that talking in a location the exact positions of the dwarfs didn't really matter (for instance two dwarfs can talk to each other from opposite ends of a tavern).

Any help as to why none of these 3 dwarfs are playing the instruments, but especially the one stationary instrument is greatly appreciated. I can supply more information about my my tavern/fort as necessary.

[Dain_Ironfoot]

I think instruments are bugged, but just curious do you have a 5x5 open space in the tavern that isn't blocked by furniture or anything?

[Esca]

The only instrument bug I've seen people reference so far is this: https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9485

It sounds like the musicians try to form a group, claim some instruments, fail to find enough people who can perform (know the song and/or have enough skill for the role?), and then give up, leaving the instruments permanently "claimed" and unusable.

You could try adding more of the instruments required by that song, or dismantle the instruments/chests and see if they get put away to determine whether they're broken. If so, I think DFHack could delete the broken instruments, or maybe remove a flag to fix them. Not sure.

[smol-wittle-debil]

Originally posted by Dain_Ironfoot:

I think instruments are bugged, but just curious do you have a 5x5 open space in the tavern that isn't blocked by furniture or anything?

Yes plenty

Originally posted by Esca:

The only instrument bug I've seen people reference so far is this: https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9485

I'm not sure if this is applicable because I don't see any small instruments on the ground, only the large placed ones, but I will try removing them to see if they are stuck, and then replacing them somewhere else.

[Araphre]

It seems most performances require very specific placement- IE, where each musician stands. If you open the task list, click the magnifying glass on someone performing, it should explain the performance in detail.

I've found most of mine require each instrumentalist take a specific place in a line of 5 or so performers, and that they tend to dance and move while playing/simulating. It's possible that the instruments just don't line up with where/how the performance is taking place.

[harlequin_corps]

Here I thought I was finicky. Where do .. where is. this information regarding instruments and placement and whatever.. where IS this information?

[Sophtopus]

I found out that the instruments can bug out inside the coffers itself...

[Araphre]

Originally posted by harlequin_corps:

Here I thought I was finicky. Where do .. where is. this information regarding instruments and placement and whatever.. where IS this information?

Each civ's instruments and performances (music, dance, poem, etc) are procedurally generated on world creation. Whatever movements or instrument timings/requirements are very specific to your playthrough.

The best you can really do is have at least a 10x10 clear, empty dance floor in your tavern. Make sure a fair number of dwarves have downtime. Watch them in the tavern and wait for them to perform. Once they do, inspect a performer (as described before) and take note of the movements/instruments required.

If you're unsure what instruments your civ can build, wait for your caravan from the mountainhome- once you have the trade agreement screen open, find the instruments tab. Everything listed here -should- be everything you can make. Take note of the names.
Then you can make global work orders to create each required part for each instrument (note you will probably need one of every single workshop, they can be made of pretty much anything).

[harlequin_corps]

Originally posted by Araphre:

Originally posted by harlequin_corps:

Here I thought I was finicky. Where do .. where is. this information regarding instruments and placement and whatever.. where IS this information?

Each civ's instruments and performances (music, dance, poem, etc) are procedurally generated on world creation. Whatever movements or instrument timings/requirements are very specific to your playthrough.

The best you can really do is have at least a 10x10 clear, empty dance floor in your tavern. Make sure a fair number of dwarves have downtime. Watch them in the tavern and wait for them to perform. Once they do, inspect a performer (as described before) and take note of the movements/instruments required.

If you're unsure what instruments your civ can build, wait for your caravan from the mountainhome- once you have the trade agreement screen open, find the instruments tab. Everything listed here -should- be everything you can make. Take note of the names.
Then you can make global work orders to create each required part for each instrument (note you will probably need one of every single workshop, they can be made of pretty much anything).

Ok.. noted..
However, would it be easier to just put a bunch of coffers in the Inn, make sure they have a 10x10 as you said and then just buy everything off the traders?
Actually, that doesn't help the placed instruments. How do they work? I've only seen them actually dance once.

[smol-wittle-debil]

This topic is so much more complicated than I initially realized. I just want my dwarfs to enjoy playing some music, I feel like I still don't understand this at all.

Originally posted by harlequin_corps:

Ok.. noted..
However, would it be easier to just put a bunch of coffers in the Inn, make sure they have a 10x10 as you said and then just buy everything off the traders?
Actually, that doesn't help the placed instruments. How do they work? I've only seen them actually dance once.

This is how I got all my instruments, so I would assume it fine. But I can't seem to get them to use any so who can say for certain.

[harlequin_corps]

Well, what I do know is everyone doing the dance has to know the dance in their knowledge section. And it's beyond finicky to get everyone that knows a dance in the inn and willing to dance.. it's really rare. Like.. Ok, you made soap, drained the caverns, did a Magma piston and dug into a heavy aquifer.. now it's time to get them to dance.

[Araphre]

Originally posted by harlequin_corps:

Ok.. noted..
However, would it be easier to just put a bunch of coffers in the Inn, make sure they have a 10x10 as you said and then just buy everything off the traders?
Actually, that doesn't help the placed instruments. How do they work? I've only seen them actually dance once.

This would be an easier way to acquire instruments, but there's another bug in the game where once an instrument is picked up and dropped, it's permanently locked in a task and can't be used again without fixing in DFhack every single time. It seems to happen more often to purchased instruments rather than ones you make yourself.

Placed instruments, I don't know. I haven't got that far with them, but I imagine you just watch a performance, find a rough average location of where that specific instrumentalist will be, and place it there.
The individual performance itself might better explain the location if you have one that uses a placed instrument. But again I haven't got that far with all the performance stuff yet.

[smol-wittle-debil]

Hmm, so today I notice one of my dwarfs actually playing an instrument, but two others next to them are simulating their instruments. One of those instruments I actually have three of in the tavern, but the other one doesn't seem to be present. I see two of the instruments on the floor are tagged as being in use by a task, but no dwarf is near them. I am assuming now that those two are affected by the bug mentioned above. Not sure why they don't pull one of the other available instruments from a chest though..

I would like to figure out exactly whats going on but I have so many projects happening at once in my fort this is sort of low priority. Im going to keep an eye on what people say and what my dwarfs do also. None of these instruments in question are the large placed instruments, so I still don't know why those weren't being used.