Resident room (and random question)

[paolo.bera]

So i have managed to attract some moster hunters who petionened to be my residents.
I accepted and designated rooms for them, but they sleep on the floor anyway, there is a way to give rooms to non citizen residents? And no they won't sleep in the tavern's room either.

Random question totally unrelated, there is a minimum size for temples?

[Morkonan]

Resident rooms attached to Taverns appear to be bugged. Long term visitors will pass out of the floor... Citizens will take the rooms on occasions. :/

At least, that's the current theory. I've seen some resident rooms occupied, but didn't bother to verify the occupant yet.

[db48x]

Originally posted by paolo.bera:

Random question totally unrelated, there is a minimum size for temples?

That would be a good topic of research. Make a tiny temple and see if anyone uses it.

[Siyndee]

Originally posted by paolo.bera:

So i have managed to attract some moster hunters who petionened to be my residents.

Random question totally unrelated, there is a minimum size for temples?

As far as I can tell even a 1x1 temple works.

[NimrodX]

Temples can be small, and if low value will be classified as shrines, but the main restriction is that if you get a cult that petitions for a temple then just like a guild you need it to be worth 2000 dwarfbucks to make them happy.

But it could be small and loaded with valuable stuff or something.

A no brain way to do this is put up a pedestal or display case and load it up with masterwork or decorated mugs, crafts, or cut gems, etc.

And yea there's some sort of bug with tavern bedrooms. Dwarves will try to claim them, and visitors won't use them. Maybe all the visitors just like the homeless lifestyle.....

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by NimrodX:

..Maybe all the visitors just like the homeless lifestyle.....

I dunno, but I got brave and assigned a Tavernkeeper to my main public tavern and he murdered two long-time guests by drowning them in alcohol. It took maybe... a couple of days before the "___ has been found dead" messages popped up. Of course, I knew that was buggy, but I just had to try to see for myself. Yup, it's bugged - Don't use Tavernkeepers and, perhaps, only ever use Performers in your Tavern at your own risk as they can potentially cause the same result.


I swear... Is there anything besides mining, "most" production chains, and drunk dwarves, who are not unconscious, being happy that is not bug-ridden?

I can't escape the bugs. I try to, then get hit with them, go out and do due-diligence to try to figure out what's wrong, and then... discover what I've been diddling with for an hour is broken. The "workarounds" are very nearly universally "don't use that game mechanic." That's almost always the best "work-around."

I'm getting to wtf levels of frustration. Reading the bugtracker is... Well, I'll leave it at that. My epic-rant fuel bunker is already loaded to bursting as it is, no need to light it off.

[NimrodX]

Nah the game has been bug ridden for 20 years and isn't supposed to be "done" for another 10. Even after some sense of feature-completeness, it would probably take 5 years to fix all the bugs. Such is the nature of a 30 year development cycle.

Maybe someone will talk Tarn into switching gears somewhat now that there's a financial security motive here.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by NimrodX:

Nah the game has been bug ridden for 20 years and isn't supposed to be "done" for another 10. Even after some sense of feature-completeness, it would probably take 5 years to fix all the bugs. Such is the nature of a 30 year development cycle.

Maybe someone will talk Tarn into switching gears somewhat now that there's a financial security motive here.

Well, they hired another coder so... there may be hope. As far as financial security, I think they've pretty much come close to that, already, with release. It may take a relatively tiny bit more to push them over into the "residual returns and interest/investment income pays all expenses" margin, but not much at all. (Taxes, Kitfox contract splits, etc)

The thing about bugsquashing, though, is that it appears to me that an increasing number of developers are actively choosing to either not do it or give it an extremely low priority. It's a distasteful thing and, in general, has little financial benefit for the developer. In fact, there's very little downside at all if they don't fix any but the most catastrophic bugs. Well, unless they're in the "No Man's Sky" or "Cyberpunk###" realm of "bugs," existing bugs don't really have a huge impact on sales unless the game just plain doesn't work.

One thing developers hate, legitimately and likely with good reason, are "customer reviews" that are aggregated in one spot, like Steam's Rating/Review system and sites like Metacritic. While dissatisfied or angry customers do weaponize them, they're really the only thing a publisher/dev has to worry about impacting sales due to player-angst with... bugs.

I don't know how to parse Bay12's... "culture" regarding bugs. I know it's just two brothers, but if there's never been an emphasis on trying to reduce or solve for bugs, I don't know that I should expect that to change just because the game is now released. I hope it does, but... i have no evidence to support that. /shrug

PS: Sorry, this just hit me hard last night and I'm still coming down from it.. :)

[NimrodX]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

The thing about bugsquashing, though, is that it appears to me that an increasing number of developers are actively choosing to either not do it or give it an extremely low priority. It's a distasteful thing and, in general, has little financial benefit for the developer. In fact, there's very little downside at all if they don't fix any but the most catastrophic bugs. Well, unless they're in the "No Man's Sky" or "Cyberpunk###" realm of "bugs," existing bugs don't really have a huge impact on sales unless the game just plain doesn't work.

That basically describes Skyrim and Fallout 4. They ignored all bugs except catastrophic crash bugs then let the community fix them with the unofficial patch. At least they documented papyrus somewhat so some bugs could be fixed.

So there's obviously a business issue with bug squashing where if it doesn't impact sales then i t doesn't need to be fixed. The ultimate abuse of this was the fake vaporware early access game phenomenon where some people would try to sell a tech demo with promises then run off with the money.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by NimrodX:

..
So there's obviously a business issue with bug squashing where if it doesn't impact sales then i t doesn't need to be fixed. The ultimate abuse of this was the fake vaporware early access game phenomenon where some people would try to sell a tech demo with promises then run off with the money.

Subtle Doublefine ref... (Or, <insert dev here>.) This is a problem, though, and there's not much anyone can do about it as long as "buyer beware" licensing, which is basically a production financing grant agreement, remains the same for game purchasers.

I agree. Though, studios that have name recognition that has an impact on their sales may, might, could... be a bit more cognizant of the long-term impact of the most annoying of bugs in their games. Unless they're Bethesda, then it's just "unexpected content."

D.F. now counts as "high profile" in my opinion. I don't see Bay12 ever creating another title, so if I mean them well, and I truly do, then I'm going to be greatly in favor of them polishing up their work. At this point, it's the difference between them being able to retire and to afford a vacation home and sending their kids to college or just having a nice house and a middle-age-crisis jet ski.

It's early, yet, though. It's really going to come down to the next several patches to see any development pattern being established, I guess. My enthusiasm for the potential of the product has heightened my sensitivity to the collection of bugs it often represents... :)

PS: And, this still has a lot to do with the OP's "Zone" issue. IMO, the more I look into bugs and bug reports, the more many of them seem to point to common issues with jobs that are focused on specific Zones. Where there's smoke, either there's a party or there's a fire.