Should I train my soldiers in copper gear first?

[Googley Eye'd Bastard]

I read a guide on here that was pretty well informative of how to grow and manage militia dwarves but one thing that it says has me unsure. The guide states that beginner dwarf recruits should wear copper armor and weapons because their lower weight allows them to train better and the heavier iron or steel gear makes them train slower and fatigue more.

Any other opinions on this?

[MadDawg2552]

I usually just go straight to iron because I find I have more of it (because I don't smelt the copper unless I need to, but I'm always smelting iron).

[Googley Eye'd Bastard]

Originally posted by MadDawg2552:

I usually just go straight to iron because I find I have more of it (because I don't smelt the copper unless I need to, but I'm always smelting iron).

True, its more profitable to make billion with the raw ore, but for training purposes I'm wondering if the weight difference would be beneficial not the material efficiency.

[polle]

problem with training is once you give them weapons they never learn martial arts again and they can lose weapons in fight. but you can assign a champion with good skills in martial arts. a single naked dwarf in "martial trance" can take out an entire goblin squad

[Commisar Jon Fuklaw]

Training should always be done with the best material you have available. Preferably this should be bronze or better. Training with inferior materials risks your military dwarfs becoming attached to them and using absolute junk in battle.

[polle]

while this is true, i had deadly training accidents in older versions atleast. who is going to built wooden swords

[Grimbot]

I've never built training weapons and just go for the best I can produce. I usually have a squad in copper and another in leather before I get to iron. Anything is better than nothing.

The biggest risk with copper that I've run into is a dwarf becoming attached to their crummy copper axe and refusing to give it up when you start getting better stuff.

[McFuzz]

only equip copper if it's the only metal you have access to.

Better than nothing. But worse than anything else.

Edit: Dwarves train FAST anyway, even in full steel.

[polle]

they will be slower in full gear thats why i said a naked legendary dodger especially in martial trance can take out an entire squad. Skill is so much more important then some weapon considering to what absurd lvls you can train it. a named copper axe on a legendary dwarf will still be absoluty dangerous - if it makes you mad he could have a steel version this dorf is attached to his copper axe and the skill difference will let him pierce through everything like butter. also dwarfen children can punch trough steel helmets with bare fists. dont underestimate pure willpower the manual skill of your dwarfes, just trust the process and the story you get out of it

[Pyro]

Dwarves who are too heavy to carry armour will be slowed down to such a level that they will always be late for training and will have little time to drink and satisfy their needs. They become akin to a rock with tiny legs, pretending to have the ability to walk.

You want dwarves to gain strength and armour skills before putting a heavy plate on their backs.

1. Give them one wooden shield, one mail-shirt, and one helm until they reach armour user lvl2-3
2. Then give them metal shields(to stun), gauntlets, high boots and greaves too. At this point, make the armour exact with no clothing on top. Wait until they reach armour user level 5
3. Finally, give them a breastplate. For those who are strong enough, you may give them two to three mail-shirts.

TL;DR: Just keep an eye on their walking speed to ensure they can enjoy life without cosplaying a rock.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Googley Eye'd Bastard:

..
Any other opinions on this?

To be honest, I just rush to Steel and don't micromanage, there. I don't think it's worth the hassle. BUT, I also only use three-month long training regimes to give all Dorfs the chance to equip if they aren't already assigned to "Always Wear." (Which, I decided to force due to obvious issues.)

As above - If they're really slow walkers while armored, also check to be sure they're not weak, injured, or otherwise unsuitable for military service. Dorfs are so patriotic they'll even accept military duty if they've lost the ability to walk... (They'll become Expert Crutch Users, though. I assign Crutch Dorfs to Library duty so they don't have to walk very far. :))

Right now, I don't stack Mail shirts like I probably should. I just give them one along with a BP and Cloak in the chest slot. They do get socks to wear with their high boots, though, and a loincloth 'cause I'm not a sadist...

https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Armor (Optimum gear stacking is there, IIRC)

IRRC for mine, steal: (Order is inside to out in-game, not below, though I don't know that it really matters in this version. One item piece each, though some items could be stacked.)

BP
Chainmail
Cloak
loincloth
greaves
trousers
socks
high boots
mittens
gauntlets

Steel shield
Weapon - Usually "choice melee" for funsies. I have a bunch of Lashers now, too, and don't know where they picked those up. Probably goblins, of course.

Crossbows get leather other than BP, Helm, and boots - So they can move to positions a bit quicker. Copper Crossbows, for better bashing, but I don't purposefully let them have a walkpath to their targets.

"Guard" (Captain's team) gets leather and whatever they want, though I should probably gear them up defensively, just avoid "Training" so they don't punch a Dorf's skull in.

[76561188078797539]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Usually "choice melee" for funsies. I have a bunch of Lashers now, too, and don't know where they picked those up. Probably goblins, of course.

Metal whips are... well, !METAL!, due to weight values and impact area calculations. Silver or platinum - if a trader brings some, get them. Pure murderweapons.

I like to force my military to spread weapon damage types. Maces (or warhammers, if unavailable for blunt trauma), short swords (cutting and piercing), and spears (for when you can't mangle something or cut it to pieces, tend to be particularly effective against FBs and Titans) combo. Axes tend to be secondary, too much overlap with short swords, and lower utility. Generally just leave them for my woodcutters-turned-militia.