mugs and cups

[yo cowards dont even smoke crack]

iv built a tavern which has a tavern keep, 6 tables, 6 chairs, a chest. it was set to 50 mugs and ten instruments. nobody is doing ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to get mugs to the tavern. when i click on tavernkeep it says socialise. he stands there on his own. crafter is full of wooden cups and rock mugs. dafuq? cant put mugs in regular stockpile either.

[Pyrex King]

same issue

[Philtre]

in terms of getting your mugs and cups into stockpiles: Mugs and cups are types of "goblet", which is a type of finished good. Make sure at least one of your stockpiles is configured to accept finished goods (or just goblets), and that you haven't accidentally set the materials or qualities filters so as to exclude your mugs.

In terms of having them put in your tavern: as long as you have a chest, they should move them automatically, but maybe they need to be taken out of the workshop first, so try to sort that out first?

[Morkonan]

There are two issues as I see it as a DF noob:

There's no apparent way to distribute, with some kind of balance, one product coming from one source to two different stockpiles. You can get them there as long as you don't use storage Bins/Barrels simply because the tiles fill up. But, that's it... as soon as you put a bin/barrel there, you're largely out of luck.

Goblets in Chests in Taverns are only used by the Tavernkeeper. Dwarves don't access them, themselves. To get them accessed by Dwarves, you have to put them in a dedicated Goblet stockpile inside that Tavern. And, if you have more than one Tavern, you either have to dedicate whatever Workshop you have making cups/mugs/goblets to it or... you can't ever guarantee there were ever be anything in there qualifying as "goblet."

I would appreciate a DF Vet's corrections to what I've stated above if I'm wrong. :)

Note: On Goblet use - Dwarves get upset when they are forced to drink without a goblet. (cup/mug/goblet) I don't know if that includes being force-fed by a Tavernkeeper or if that's a separate mechanic, though.

Added: I have a pretty extensive fortress. As soon as I started trying to link stockpiles to produce some kind of reasonable flow of goblet items, chests went empty and... nothing. I would rarely find any goblets in any of the spots they should have been. They just sort of stay in the initial production stockpile by the Workshops. Which.... sucks. I don't know the mechanics because it's tough to judge how bins effect stockpile mechanics and how the work order results effect production batch numbers and how batch size limits the storage level of an item in bins and how, if ever, any bin's contents get transferred to another stockpile with bins in it... And, i have worked in real life industrial production environments and have designed such systems for manufacturing... and I'm like... "wtf?" :) :/ This is a "maths" system, not a PLC controlled formulary based system with some standard unit we're dealing with. Aaaand, sorry for the /rant. :)

[BlackSmokeDMax]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

There are two issues as I see it as a DF noob:

There's no apparent way to distribute, with some kind of balance, one product coming from one source to two different stockpiles. You can get them there is you don't use storage Bins/Barrels simply because the tiles fill up. But, that's it... as soon as you put a bin/barrel there, you're largely out of luck.

Goblets in Chests in Taverns are only used by the Tavernkeeper. Dwarves don't access them, themselves. To get them accessed by Dwarves, you have to put them in a dedicated Goblet stockpile inside that Tavern. And, if you have more than one Tavern, you either have to dedicate whatever Workshop you have making cups/mugs/goblets to it or... you can't ever guarantee there were ever be anything in there qualifying as "goblet."

I would appreciate a DF Vet's corrections to what I've stated above if I'm wrong. :)

You should be able to put a stockpile in the tavern and set it to take from the main stockpile where you have them going when they are done being produced. May even want to set that tavern stockpile to NOT use bins, that way they will lay on the ground 1/tile.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by BlackSmokeDMax:

You should be able to put a stockpile in the tavern and set it to take from the main stockpile where you have them going when they are done being produced. May even want to set that tavern stockpile to NOT use bins, that way they will lay on the ground 1/tile.

I did that.

The workshop produces them. I have a stockpile right there by the workshop that does accept them. That stockpile is linked to small one-tile storage cells for testing.

I did start with bins in those one-tile stockpiles. They never received one goblet even though the initial stockpile was feeding to them. When the bin was removed... nothing. Though, I may need to just delete them and put in a fresh, unsullied, no-bin-ever stockpile.

(PS: Do you know if goblets stack in one tile? If not, which they probably don't, then... it's a pretty elaborate delivery system.)

But, if so, then...why Bins at all? They receive other goods, so why do they behave that way when they're part of what is a "logic-filter" supply system?

Anyone? That's what we'd be using the Storage for in this case - To filter goods appropriately. It's just not dependable, it seems. (I admit, with all that "could" happen, something probably "is" happening... What that is would take an expert in DF Dorf Engineering to answer. :))

[Philtre]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

Goblets in Chests in Taverns are only used by the Tavernkeeper. Dwarves don't access them, themselves. To get them accessed by Dwarves, you have to put them in a dedicated Goblet stockpile inside that Tavern. And, if you have more than one Tavern, you either have to dedicate whatever Workshop you have making cups/mugs/goblets to it or... you can't ever guarantee there were ever be anything in there qualifying as "goblet."

The tavernkeeper should serve customers, meaning they take a cup from the chest, get a drink and deliver it to the drinker, cup and all. So you shouldn't need to keep a separate stockpile of cups in a tavern; however, it may help if you have a lot of customers, so they don't have to wait for the tavernkeeper. Especially if you don't have a separate dining hall where thirsty dwarves can get a drink for themselves.

If you keep an excessive stock of goblets (e.g., set work orders to keep 50 goblets total, and have two taverns set to each keep 10 in their chests), there shouldn't be a problem stocking chests in multiple taverns. The tavern staff should proactively go fetch goblets to keep the chests stocked.

[Philtre]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

But, if so, then...why Bins at all? They receive other goods, so why do they behave that way when they're part of what is a "logic-filter" supply system?

Bins mainly cause problems because whenever a dwarf puts things into or takes them out of a bin, it temporarily removes the entire bin, and all of its contents, from the list of accessible items. So having all of your goblets in a single high-traffic bin will mean that most of the time, you have no available goblets - because the bin itself is in use.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Philtre:

...
If you keep an excessive stock of goblets (e.g., set work orders to keep 50 goblets total, and have two taverns set to each keep 10 in their chests), there shouldn't be a problem stocking chests in multiple taverns. The tavern staff should proactively go fetch goblets to keep the chests stocked.

So...

What you're implying is that in a large Tavern, one should do two things:

1) Increase the number of goblets kept in chests
2) Increase the number of Tavernkeepers serving patrons

Yes?

IOW - No self-service?

If there's no self-service and service is only via Tavernkeeper, then consumption of all drinks via tavern is tripled. IOW - That means one tavern, properly working, increases Drink consumption rate by three per unit of consumption.

At least, as the design may be intended, implied my interpretation of what you said should be done. :)

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Philtre:

Originally posted by Morkonan:

But, if so, then...why Bins at all? They receive other goods, so why do they behave that way when they're part of what is a "logic-filter" supply system?

Bins mainly cause problems because whenever a dwarf puts things into or takes them out of a bin, it temporarily removes the entire bin, and all of its contents, from the list of accessible items. So having all of your goblets in a single high-traffic bin will mean that most of the time, you have no available goblets - because the bin itself is in use.

Well, in practice... any time it has a goblet in it, it will be claimed and can't be accessed while that goblet is being... used (Do they take the goblet and then use it, restocking it later, or is a sort of one-time thing?) and... the bin being claimed means it's not currently being polled as in-inventory? Or.. sumthin'? :)

Sorry about all the questions.

Edit-add-sorry - What I'm saying is that one goblet in one bin in a Tavern means that bin isn't often being polled to see if is a valid storage spot for goblets, because it would be in constant use every time it came open for claiming.

[harlequin_corps]

You need another chest. That one chest is probably just for the instruments.

[Philtre]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

So...

What you're implying is that in a large Tavern, one should do two things:

1) Increase the number of goblets kept in chests
2) Increase the number of Tavernkeepers serving patrons

Yes?

IOW - No self-service?

Customers will self-serve if there are goblets in a stockpile, but not if the only available goblets are in a chest.

Originally posted by Morkonan:

If there's no self-service and service is only via Tavernkeeper, then consumption of all drinks via tavern is tripled. IOW - That means one tavern, properly working, increases Drink consumption rate by three per unit of consumption.

At least, as the design may be intended, implied my interpretation of what you said should be done. :)

The function of drinks served in a tavern is a bit different from just drinking in general. People will drink in a dining hall when they are thirsty. Taverns are less about meeting food/drink needs; they allow socialization, entertainment, and gossip with visitors from other colonies. Customers will consume more alcohol when they drink in a tavern, and can get drunk, with various attendant problems.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Philtre:

Customers will self-serve if there are goblets in a stockpile, but not if the only available goblets are in a chest.

Yup, that's what I thought you were implying, there.

The trouble with having a stockpile there is that few Dorfs could actually self-serve. And, with a Bin, which would allow more goblets in less space, even less would self-serve and the bin, itself, may never be properly indexed. (As I understand the mechanics. And, I don't claim such a thing... yet. :))

The function of drinks served in a tavern is a bit different from just drinking in general. People will drink in a dining hall when they are thirsty. Taverns are less about meeting food/drink needs; they allow socialization, entertainment, and gossip with visitors from other colonies. Customers will consume more alcohol when they drink in a tavern, and can get drunk, with various attendant problems.

Yup, understood - I understand the risk/cost/benefit intent if that is how it is designed. That design makes sense, provided the benefit is worthy of the increased consumption induced by the Tavernkeeper. It's a steep price to pay, though, if many patrons are using the Tavern. (The obvious social and entertainment benefits are pretty huge, though.)


Does their "Drink Frequency" increase with their presence in an Tavern? IOW - Normally, they drink somewhere around 4.something times a month, yes? A Tavernkeeper is supposed to, IIRC, increase their drink consumption by three times. I assume that is "by dose." So, in their normal course of drinking during a month, if they visit a tavern once and receive one drink unit from there, that unit is three times the usual unit dose, which means they would have consumed seven.something units of alcohol for that one month period.

IF, however, it's demand based and they just drink at xx rate in a tavern, things could get... pretty dicey.

Or, if they just had a drink in a separate Dining Hall and then went to a Tavern, they could get a 4x accumulation in their system nearly all at once.

[Xcorps]

You do not need an innkeeper.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Xcorps:

You do not need an innkeeper.

So, then how does one supply them with goblets effectively? Make the whole tavern floor a tile stockpile of goblets/cups/mugs?

Bins... for these apparently frequent-use items have logical issues as they get claimed, temporarily removing them from all inventory polling, as each Dorf tries to use a goblet in them. And, they don't seem to actually retain goblets and don't appear to easily accept them from other locations.

***

Ya know..

Armor Stands and Weapon Racks have inventory issues that don't tag their contents appropriately, making civilians restock their content while Squad members see them as viable stockpiles.

Could Bins in Tavern Zones be suffering the same issue? They... "shouldn't." But, Zones are kinda wonky, anyway, sometimes...

[Xcorps]

You need 2 chests in the inn, a stockpile of booze, a stockpile of prepared meals (you don't actually need the prepared meals, it just saves a lot of walking), and 25 tiles of unused space, called a dance floor in the room description. You need tables and chairs.

Once all those things have been placed, your dwarves will stock the chest with goblets.