What do different weapons do?

[Skyguard]

As far as I see it, weapons don't have effect on dwarves performance. Hammerers are just as good at clobbering gobbos as axemen are. Except dwarves wish sharp weapons tear them to shreds and it takes dwarves months to clean the area and it inevitably starts stinking.

[Gosera]

Publicado originalmente por Skyguard:

Publicado originalmente por High Lord Denix:

It's the best all around as a weapon, as a weapons job is not to keep your fort clean and free of giblets but to quickly and efficiently eviscerate your enemies, if you dont want to deal with bits and pieces then blunt weapons are what you want.

Why not spears? Every spearman I got does absolutely amazingly as long as they know how to fight. I have one spearman that lived through 2 forts and has almost a hundred kills.

All weapon types has drawbacks, spears for example can be lodged and force the wielder losing a few actions while pulling it out, so it isnt just simply one is better then other.. like for example i adore my warhammer/shield as my primary squad becuse i like the chance of giving creatures blackouts/crushing there limbs, but the trade of is that they will be a bit slower agenst unarmored

[shoopy]

Publicado originalmente por Skyguard:

Publicado originalmente por ardiel:

Every weapon works well enough in trained hands. The differences aren't so much that you're losing out, except for in extreme edge cases, like maces on large beasts.

Maces are bad against beasts?

Really big ones yeah, because it doesn't cause much fatal damage to them immediately.

[High Lord Denix]

Publicado originalmente por Skyguard:

Publicado originalmente por High Lord Denix:

It's the best all around as a weapon, as a weapons job is not to keep your fort clean and free of giblets but to quickly and efficiently eviscerate your enemies, if you dont want to deal with bits and pieces then blunt weapons are what you want.

Why not spears? Every spearman I got does absolutely amazingly as long as they know how to fight. I have one spearman that lived through 2 forts and has almost a hundred kills.

Spears are great on anything with little armor like animals, goblins or cavern people, they are pretty worthless against most of the actual things that can threaten a established fortress like some of the scarier mega beasts, titans or forgotten beasts made out of rock/gems/metals.

[Skyguard]

Publicado originalmente por High Lord Denix:

Publicado originalmente por Skyguard:

Why not spears? Every spearman I got does absolutely amazingly as long as they know how to fight. I have one spearman that lived through 2 forts and has almost a hundred kills.

Spears are great on anything with little armor like animals, goblins or cavern people, they are pretty worthless against most of the actual things that can threaten a established fortress like some of the scarier mega beasts, titans or forgotten beasts made out of rock/gems/metals.

I think I fought one made of bronze, they killed it just as easily as all others.

[High Lord Denix]

Publicado originalmente por Skyguard:

Publicado originalmente por High Lord Denix:

Spears are great on anything with little armor like animals, goblins or cavern people, they are pretty worthless against most of the actual things that can threaten a established fortress like some of the scarier mega beasts, titans or forgotten beasts made out of rock/gems/metals.

I think I fought one made of bronze, they killed it just as easily as all others.

I feel like you're looking for an answer you're never going to get, if you have a squad of legendary military dwarves with half decent equipment they can and will kill everything with whatever they're trained with. A bunch of dwarves with spears will eventually chip away at a metal titan, that doesnt mean spears were the best way to go about killing it.

[Skyguard]

Publicado originalmente por High Lord Denix:

Publicado originalmente por Skyguard:

I think I fought one made of bronze, they killed it just as easily as all others.

I feel like you're looking for an answer you're never going to get, if you have a squad of legendary military dwarves with half decent equipment they can and will kill everything with whatever they're trained with. A bunch of dwarves with spears will eventually chip away at a metal titan, that doesnt mean spears were the best way to go about killing it.

Why bother training with something other than spears or hammers then? The only time when I won't have a squad of legendary fighters is if I suffered absolutely horrendous losses due to cavemen drowning them or something. Getting legendary soldiers isn't exactly hard. They are supposed to train all the time anyways.

[High Lord Denix]

Publicado originalmente por Skyguard:

Publicado originalmente por High Lord Denix:

I feel like you're looking for an answer you're never going to get, if you have a squad of legendary military dwarves with half decent equipment they can and will kill everything with whatever they're trained with. A bunch of dwarves with spears will eventually chip away at a metal titan, that doesnt mean spears were the best way to go about killing it.

Why bother training with something other than spears or hammers then? The only time when I won't have a squad of legendary fighters is if I suffered absolutely horrendous losses due to cavemen drowning them or something. Getting legendary soldiers isn't exactly hard. They are supposed to train all the time anyways.

Because Dwarf fortress isnt about always doing the most optimal thing, you'll get bored of the game really quickly if that's all you do, you like spears because they dont make much mess, some people like swords and axes because they like watching body parts sail off in an arc, I personally like to give some of my dwarves whips because I find it funny and some people make wrestler only squads, they're all good and they all work, simple as.

[nrusselluk]

adventurer mode gives a better comparison of the weapons. called shots to head or chest with spear/blade points is lethal for creatures with brains/hearts. crushing weapons are good for breaking bones, causing pain and KO - for creatures that feel pain.

no one is talking about how dangerous Wrestlers are.. they might be most OP of all!
legendary wrestler can grab your weapon arm, lock elbow, so you can't attack, etc.
they can systematically break every bone in your body.

[Duuvian]

If it hasn't changed since I last read about it, piercing is good against very large enemies that it can penetrate and take injuries to organs, slashing is good for taking off limbs of non-large creatures, blunt is good for enemies made of hard materials. In addition to type you factor in materials being able to penetrate armor (or "skin" for things like FB or BC) for non-blunt weapons while blunt weapons benefit from a heavier weight material. You also have to look at the contact area, as a small contact area puts more force into the contacted area. For instance, metal whips are surprisingly effective against BC because they have a tiny contact area and do blunt damage IIRC.

Pain ignoring and non-bleeding enemies also will change the value of certain weapons, for example piercing vs undead is less effective than blunt because they don't bleed or feel pain, while slashing has the problem of creating severed pieces that a necro or evil biome can reanimate, though removing limbs of undead is otherwise effective, especially if the limbs with the grasping token are removed such as arms or hands.

Adventure mode should help illustrate how the weapons are used in a better way than fort mode. For example you can lock joins as a skilled wrestler adventurer and disarm a creature by breaking it's grasping limbs, or target them with an edged weapon to lop them off; while a spear is much less likely to sever, but much more likely to injure guts and cause disabling nausea and pain.

[PattyMcfly]

I've been sending guys out with a 1h Battle Axe in each hand. It's been my favorite so far because they seem to punch and kick a lot less, most combat logs are just swing the axe, swing the axe, swing the axe, one is lodged, swing the other axe, both are free.

Sure, it's messy- but if you don't want to see goblin/elf limbs and guts fly across your screen every fight we're not the same kind of people.

[ostlandr]

I tend to just have a variety of weapons available in the stockpile, and then I use "individual weapon choice." Once the Dwarves pick a weapon specialty, you can then assign them to specialist squads if desired.

[BoogieMan]

Blunt Weapons: Does damage through armor, damage that causes pain and disables by broken bones, but is less lethal than bloodloss. Less effective against very large enemies where the impact force may not get much through their skin, fat, muscles and into the bones and organs. I believe blunt weapons are more important if the enemy has armor made of a type of metal that is better than your weapon. However, in Fortress mode that is highly unlikely as the Dwarves are the only ones to use steel, and most everyone else uses copper, bronze, or iron and the player having at least iron is highly likely.

Swords/Axes: Less effective against armor, but cause a lot of bloodloss and cause good injuries and quick kills in the hands of the highly skilled. Also lose effectiveness against very large enemies, but probably less so than blunt weapons because of the bleeding - assuming they cut deep enough (through skin and fat) on the creature to cause bleeding.

Spears: Better against very large enemies unlike the other weapons because they can pierce deep into a creature and hit vital spots. However, I get the sense they are a little less efficient than other other weapons because the wielder on average has to spend a little more time pulling the weapon free.

Personally I usually do squads of axes for anyone without a pre existing weapon skill to use as the bulk of the the forces, a squad of spears for dealing with large threats, and a misc squad of people with pre existing weapon skills.


Note there is a small loss of training efficiency in squads with multiple weapon types, because there will be weapon demonstrations that are useless to the members in the squad with a different weapon.

[Skyguard]

Publicado originalmente por nrusselluk:

adventurer mode gives a better comparison of the weapons. called shots to head or chest with spear/blade points is lethal for creatures with brains/hearts. crushing weapons are good for breaking bones, causing pain and KO - for creatures that feel pain.

no one is talking about how dangerous Wrestlers are.. they might be most OP of all!
legendary wrestler can grab your weapon arm, lock elbow, so you can't attack, etc.
they can systematically break every bone in your body.

Publicado originalmente por PattyMcfly:

I've been sending guys out with a 1h Battle Axe in each hand. It's been my favorite so far because they seem to punch and kick a lot less, most combat logs are just swing the axe, swing the axe, swing the axe, one is lodged, swing the other axe, both are free.

Sure, it's messy- but if you don't want to see goblin/elf limbs and guts fly across your screen every fight we're not the same kind of people.

I like seeing that, I don't like cleaning that up. The entire area will stink for months causing dwarves to get mad.

[Grimmrog_SIG]

well, spears can pierce armor easier if they are of the same material, because the have the pointiest tips (and that matters when a survafe hits a armor) and they can instantly kill when stab a vital organ. their ability to kill undead is limited to piercing the brain.

Maces and warhammers can smash things to muddy whatevers, which against undead is good, because servered undead body parts could become alive and keep fighting. (yeah don't ask how a finger actually fghts).

Axes can kill undeads or vampires by chopping the head off. otherwise may cause the servered body part stuff to happen on undead.

swors are somehow inbetween.

picks are amazing against specific random generated beasts as they can crush any material (think about somethign made of stone).

the sowrd is a bit a mix if chop and stab.

I settled as one of the low pop parent civilizations, strangely there is a weird other dwarven civ nearbly being hostile, I guess they are undead, because I already had them visiting. So yes, encountering undead is rare, unless you settle near them. and if you regulary see them, they are very painful to deal with as they are strong and can appear in quite good armor

[Muted Kobold]

Spears = Anti-Large creatures. Decent against armor. OK-ish agianst people. Spears can get lodged into humanoids. Which causes the dorf to waste time pulling it out. Or drop the weapon entirely and rely on their shield or fists. THis seems to go away over time with skill. As I've noticed it happen less. Agaisnt larger creatures. Spears will punch deep, and will damage internal organs on things like giants, giant spiders, forgotten beasts and dragons. They are very light, and can have multiple attacks.

Axe = Generally very good Anti-personal weapon. Exceptionally good against unarmored foes. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ against armor. It improves with time with skill naturally. But armor is still a major hinderance. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ against large creatures. You mostly do damage to fatty layers.

Pick = Amazing armor piercing, solid anti-personal. Picks are very good with piercing armor. It is both a slashing and piercing weapon. Due to the way the game works, it has a lower contact surface, which actually makes it better against armor overall when slashed, as it can find gaps in the armor easier. Not very good against large creatures.

Sword = The Jack of all trades, master of none. It can do a little of everything. It is neither exceptional, nor bad at anything really. (Other than large creatures). Due to its light weight however, it tends to have more attacks at higher skills, and can deal with being surrounded better.

Warhammer = Extremely good at anti-personal vs armor and no armor. Very good against undead. Small contact area means that it punches armor, and will break bones and damage organs. Ok ish against larger creatures unless the limbs are chitanous. Use the heaviest thing you got. (Silver if you got it. otherwise steel)

Mace = Not worse than warhammer. Just a very different function. Larger contact area means it deals a lot of tissue damage and pulping. The difference between this and the warhammer, is that a mace will absolutely DESTROY a limb. Maces are EXTREMELY GOOD against the undead. A warhammer is more likely to break limbs when taking out an undead. a Necromancer can just ressurect the thing and it will get right back up. Pulping on the other hand, makes sure there is nothing left.

Both Mace and Warhammers have a solid chance of knocking someone unconcious or crippling them severely. A crippled or unconcious enemy will be killed almost instantly, as the dwarves will always make an accurate strike to the head.

Crossbows = Piercing damage. Use steel when you can. They don't do a lot of damage to extremities. But can instantly drop someone with a lucky shot. They can weaken an army before they get close to you. Or are a generally safer means of dealing with extreme ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Like Cave Spiders, or Forgotten beasts.

Miscellaneous weapons (Ie books, doors, statues) Dwarves will use what ever they have in their hands to defend themselves. Or what they can pick up on the fly. Even if it is a corpse. Generally, unless they have a high fighting skill, They know that it is always better to be armed, and will use what ever they can pick up that isn't nailed down.

There is no best weapon (outside of large creatures and undead). Using only one type of weapon for the fortress is not a good idea. Make a squad with a single type of weapon. And use many different weapons.

Using one weapon type for a whole squad prevents unneccessary weapon training, which can slow down the primary weapon's growth. And trust me... you want them to skill up FAST with the primary weapon.

For your soldier's sanity. Stressed dwarves do not perform well. Especially in combat. Don't use constant training as is. Make a new schedule. Have at 5-7 of your dwarves train. The rest will be off duty. The dwarves will cycle out on their own, letting the others attend to their needs.

BONUS ROUND! ARMOR

This one isn't worth explaining too much. Armor covers specific parts of the body. And it can be layered. certain things are "Shaped" meaning you cannot attach another shaped armor to that body part.

Stacking armor doesn't improve the protection to that part. An axe will cleave through 6 chainmails as easily as one. It will use the best armor for that part to protect.

Why stack armor? Optimization. Certain body parts are not protected by plate equivalents. Breast plates do not protect the arms. but chainmail does.

So... for armor... the best starting armor you can do is...
Steel Helm
Steel Mail
Steel High Boots
Steel gauntlets
Leather Cloak (Protects the face and additional ♥♥♥♥)
Wooden/Leather Shield.

Weight does matter. If your dwarf isn't very strong, or does not have a high armor skill, wearing too much armor will slow them down. And that will kill them faster than being naked. You will often win battles you have no right to, simply because the enemy wore too much armor and couldn't move for ♥♥♥♥. This is because their movement speed also effects how many turns they get in combat. So it controls their ability to dodge, parry, attack, etc.

As their skills improve. You can then add to their armor.
Steel Breast Plate, Greaves. And congrats... they are fully equipped.

This is specifically mentioned because the material of your weapons matter. If you try attacking steel armor with wooden or iron weapons? Yeah... you're gonna die. Because that weapon isn't getting through.