Question(s) about retracting bridges, grates / bars, and a lot of water.

[Lorethys]

So i'm attempting to build an amateurish river-fed toggleable waterfall-reservoir combo but i've come across a few questions that i couldn't find explicit answers to, at least where one would expect. Or there were implications but no hard confirmations.

- Does a retracting-style bridge prevent water from passing to lower Z-levels if used to cover the entire opening?

- Do grates allow, or do they prevent, the movement of items? (The wiki claims they block items, but the in-game description for both grates and bars states that items will pass through.)

- Does water flow directly down until impeded, similar to Minecraft's fluid physics? Or does it spread out, at all, over the X and Y when falling through open space?

[Sinclair]

This is based on version 45.05, so keep that in mind.

Retracting bridge acts like a floor, blocking liquids from sipping under it.
Grates block items from traveling through them, bars do not.
Water follows real life physics. It will flow into every available nook and try to level out. This means, water under pressure can actually rise up levels and flood areas you didn't want flooded. Water spray can leave water puddles around an open waterfall, but the water will not spread sideways unless all levels below are already full.

[Gosera]

Originally posted by Sinclair:

This is based on version 45.05, so keep that in mind.

Retracting bridge acts like a floor, blocking liquids from sipping under it.
Grates block items from traveling through them, bars do not.
Water follows real life physics. It will flow into every available nook and try to level out. This means, water under pressure can actually rise up levels and flood areas you didn't want flooded. Water spray can leave water puddles around an open waterfall, but the water will not spread sideways unless all levels below are already full.

Wall Grates can have arrows shot through them, and as far i know bars only allows items if shot through them or being pushed by liquid

[Lorethys]

Originally posted by Sinclair:

This is based on version 45.05, so keep that in mind.

Retracting bridge acts like a floor, blocking liquids from sipping under it.
Grates block items from traveling through them, bars do not.
Water follows real life physics. It will flow into every available nook and try to level out. This means, water under pressure can actually rise up levels and flood areas you didn't want flooded. Water spray can leave water puddles around an open waterfall, but the water will not spread sideways unless all levels below are already full.

This more or less at least gives me enough confidence to put the effort in to make an attempt and savescum if any info doesn't apply in Steam release. The game's already f.u.n. enough with having all the information, but the dorfs still causing shenanigans.

[TheUltimateTeacup]

Originally posted by Lorethys:

This more or less at least gives me enough confidence to put the effort in to make an attempt and savescum if any info doesn't apply in Steam release. The game's already f.u.n. enough with having all the information, but the dorfs still causing shenanigans.

Did you have any luck building what you intended? I ask because I was also trying to get water in to my fort and inadvertently created a water death trap that has claimed the lives of many dwarves and livestock.

I tried vertical bars, but the water pressure seems to push objects through, trapping them in the water where they drown.

I haven't had a chance to try grates, yet, but that's on my list of things to do.

[76561188078797539]

Originally posted by TheUltimateTeacup:

I tried vertical bars, but the water pressure seems to push objects through, trapping them in the water where they drown.

Diagonal connection will eliminate water pressure.

It will still flow through, just at a much slower pace. You can carve a fortification into a wall of a reservoir with multiple z-levels of water above, and as long as you do that diagonally your miner will happily leave after the work is done, probably without even getting his feet wet.

Basically:

xPx
PCP
xPx

C - central tile/water source
P - tiles that will be affected by water pressure when connected to C
x - tiles connected to C with no water pressure propagation

Do keep in mind that a screw pump drawing from a feeding channel that had water pressure eliminated from it will end up operating at notably decreased efficiency. If you want large areas flooded fast (obsidian casting and/or guest welcome rooms), either directly or through a pump stack, that water pressure might be handy to have.

[Lorethys]

Originally posted by TheUltimateTeacup:

Did you have any luck building what you intended? I ask because I was also trying to get water in to my fort and inadvertently created a water death trap that has claimed the lives of many dwarves and livestock.

I tried vertical bars, but the water pressure seems to push objects through, trapping them in the water where they drown.

I haven't had a chance to try grates, yet, but that's on my list of things to do.

indeed, i seem to have succeeded in my small plan.
At the top level of the river water i built a reservoir with small retractable bridges to serve as horizontal floodgates. i also built floodgates behind vertical grates to control the filling of the reservoir as well as keep any possible unpleasant, polluting stuff from being pushed in by the flow.

Below that level i dug holes in the floor directly under the bridges, down a handful of floors (~10) to a second, larger and deeper reservoir. it holds at least four times the amount as the smaller one. Floor grates cover the holes dug all the way down, just in case.
Takes two levers to operate so it's a little inefficient. One opens the floodgates to the river, the other controls the bridges to release water downward.

i wouldn't want to leave the entire system open to the flow of the river. if the gates are open, the bridges are extended. Gates must be closed before releasing the water.
Enough mist generates to cover the tavern area whenever it's time to pull levers, so everything appears to be working as planned with no hiccups.

i'm not experienced enough to handle persistently flowing river-fed waterfalls yet so for now it's the inefficient-but-safe route for me

[76561188078797539]

Originally posted by Lorethys:

indeed, i seem to have succeeded in my small plan.

One of us! One of us! :)

Originally posted by Lorethys:

Below that level i dug holes in the floor directly under the bridges, down a handful of floors (~10) to a second, larger and deeper reservoir.

I'd strongly suggest planning your reservoirs to be somewhere topside. You never know when you'll need vast amounts of water for stuffs, and 10-levels pump stacks just take a bit to set up. More of an annoyance than an obstacle, but once you made a functioning one, you've made them all. Also requires more power, and self-contained waterwheel generators do impact FPS the more you have of them.

Originally posted by Lorethys:

Takes two levers to operate so it's a little inefficient.

My experience is to never skip on extra levers. You never know when, despite your best efforts, something unexpected happens and you need to close just one part of a system.

Originally posted by Lorethys:

i wouldn't want to leave the entire system open to the flow of the river. if the gates are open, the bridges are extended. Gates must be closed before releasing the water.

Undwarfy, but that's what prevents not-so-happy, not-so-little "accidents" ending your fortress :)

Originally posted by Lorethys:

Enough mist generates to cover the tavern area whenever it's time to pull levers, so everything appears to be working as planned with no hiccups.

Hooray! Hooray! Ok, that's enough, back to mining everyone!

Originally posted by Lorethys:

i'm not experienced enough to handle persistently flowing river-fed waterfalls yet so for now it's the inefficient-but-safe route for me

You always want them connected to elements allowing water pressure control anyway. Things happen. Building a waterfall while always planning for a lockable reservoir to feed it also teaches you the right approach for more hostile biomes anyway.

Congrats on another step toward becoming a ☼Fortress architect☼

[TheUltimateTeacup]

Originally posted by Lorethys:

indeed, i seem to have succeeded in my small plan.

Congratulations. I've got my water supply working, but have given up on protecting my dwarves and livestock. I tried installing grates, but the water freezes every winter and that seems to loosen the grates so that when the ice thaws the water washes them away.

Anyhow, covered most of the water leading to my "down pipe" with floor on the level above and moved my paddock away from the water and that seems to have stopped the deaths (from drowning, that is).

[Helios]

Originally posted by TheUltimateTeacup:

Originally posted by Lorethys:

indeed, i seem to have succeeded in my small plan.

Congratulations. I've got my water supply working, but have given up on protecting my dwarves and livestock. I tried installing grates, but the water freezes every winter and that seems to loosen the grates so that when the ice thaws the water washes them away.

Anyhow, covered most of the water leading to my "down pipe" with floor on the level above and moved my paddock away from the water and that seems to have stopped the deaths (from drowning, that is).

you can use fortifications in water but i would use them diagonal to reduce waterpressure dont put them in a line there is a bug that creature can passe them at 7/7 watelevel also pressure plate can have a waterlevel triger like open if below 7.

[76561188078797539]

Originally posted by TheUltimateTeacup:

Congratulations. I've got my water supply working, but have given up on protecting my dwarves and livestock. I tried installing grates, but the water freezes every winter and that seems to loosen the grates so that when the ice thaws the water washes them away.

I always connect to brooks/streams/rivers through several z-level drops arrangement, then bring the water back up with a pump stack powered by perpetuum mobile waterwheel arrangement.

This gives several benefits. You can make entry to the first pump room building-destroyer-proof (they can't deconstruct forbidden hatches/doors overhead), everything else can just kiss the overhead grate. on the lowest pump intake channel-down.

It gives me pressurized reservoir I can tap into with multiple pumps without immediately draining it for when I need a lot of water fast (mostly for mass-scale obsidian casting). The regular water arrangement for my fortress (wells, waterfall) are all done with diagonal pressure-removers. Having a well a few z-levels up also prevents climbers, even if you directly connect it to the main pressurized system. If you're doubly-paranoid, you can smooth the walls of the water hole.

Always make sure you have several bridges in place to cut off parts of the system as needed. Have yet to suffer any water-borne invasion attempts, but if those happen, even if I miss the incursion with the first bridge, I have plenty further down in each branch of the waterworks to lock down.

Building destroyers can't break bridges, unlike floodgates. Bridges can also be used to control water flow rate, since you can Atom-Smash water with them as well as everything else in the tiles "under" them.

[BlueHawk89]

This might help you understand how water pressure works in Dwarf Fortress:
https://youtu.be/-rY1T1Fh5ug