everyone fighting eachother

[wizard]

help, my dwarves just started fighting eachother all of a sudden.
i dont know why this is happening. had no special event pop up or anything. food, drink, happyness all good.
if i take a look at the combat logs everyone is fighting someone else.
cant find any status effects that are causing this.
im not suddenly at war with another faction or anything.

any ideas to find out the source?

https://imgur.com/MZ6A07O
(screenshot is what happens if i let it run for 10 seconds)

[EternalNooblet]

your dwarves have the spirit of eternalnooblet in them

[Tonus]

There. The last alert in the column (with the face and excamation mark), guess is that someone has gone berserk and started attacking his colleagues.

[whit]

Loyalty cascade most likely. Do you have a tavern setup with tavern keep and performers?

[wizard]

Originally posted by Tonus:

There. The last alert in the column (with the face and excamation mark), guess is that someone has gone berserk and started attacking his colleagues.

some dudes sunk into depression and children with tantrums lmao.

watched the combat logs some more:
adult dwarves fighting dogs
turkeys fighting dwarves
children fighting adults
adults fighting adults
the queen herself is bashing heads in left and right

[wizard]

Originally posted by whit:

Loyalty cascade most likely. Do you have a tavern setup with tavern keep and performers?

yes, even two!

any way to check loyalty in detail?

[whit]

Are you able to pause the game and forbid all doors surrounding the fighting, once it begins? that's probably going to be the only way to limit it at this point. Otherwise just google search loyalty cascade on google, it's been a problem for awhile.

They're not always started by being overly drunk but that's probably what caused it...even hitting someones cat can cause it to spiral out of control. And there's been fixes and breaks to the problem throughout the years, so I don't remember all the details accurately. I just started playing the steam release and haven't played classic in a few years.

edit - typos

[wizard]

Originally posted by whit:

Are you able to pause the game and forbid all doors surrounding the fighting, once it begins? that's probably going to be the only way to limit it at this point. Otherwise just google search loyalty cascade on google, it's been a problem for awhile.

They're not always started by being overly drunk but that's probably what caused it...even hitting someones cat can cause it to spiral out of control. And there's been fixes and breaks to the problem throughout the years, so I don't remember all the details accurately. I just started playing the steam release and haven't played classic in a few years.

edit - typos

the fight ended with about 13 dwarves dead of my ~205

now another one started one season later and i was able to determine the cause.
a child was having a tantrum and the dwarves began defending the attacker and the defender which caused a spiral of violence.
fight is still active right now.

so yeah, loyalty cascade seems to be the issue in general.

[Sylverone]

I'm very curious if this issue will ever be properly resolved and what the solution will look like. It's like the beings in-game lack the counter-drives that limit this sort of thing in real life.

I mean, in real life once a fight reaches a certain level of horror some people start to back away and question the fighting itself. Ideology is a different thing. This is just out of control retribution. Kinda funny in a sort of sick way.

I guess in the real world once a fight gets recognized AS a fight, the fighting itself becomes the part of the threat for bystanders so the ideas of what should be done change. Dunno, my view here might be too narrow.

[Mr.Wiggles]

Originally posted by Cockus Maximus:

Originally posted by whit:

Are you able to pause the game and forbid all doors surrounding the fighting, once it begins? that's probably going to be the only way to limit it at this point. Otherwise just google search loyalty cascade on google, it's been a problem for awhile.

They're not always started by being overly drunk but that's probably what caused it...even hitting someones cat can cause it to spiral out of control. And there's been fixes and breaks to the problem throughout the years, so I don't remember all the details accurately. I just started playing the steam release and haven't played classic in a few years.

edit - typos

the fight ended with about 13 dwarves dead of my ~205

now another one started one season later and i was able to determine the cause.
a child was having a tantrum and the dwarves began defending the attacker and the defender which caused a spiral of violence.
fight is still active right now.

so yeah, loyalty cascade seems to be the issue in general.

Dwarf toddler throws a tantrum.
Entire fort takes sides to either defend or attack the little sh!t.
When it's over, 13 doorfs lie dead.
This is a normal Tuesday in Dwarf Fortress.

[Katsu.I]

I am also seeing this behaviour and it might be a tad much ?
At some point I had 50 dead dorfs from a single fight, things just spiral out of control from there.
Nothing really gets done anymore because they're either too busy fighting, too depressed from losing friends or there's just not enough adults to do the adult labor.
My tombs are massive to deal with all the hauntings too.

[Sylverone]

As I said to someone in a conversation at some point:
"Now if only the dwarves can be taught to value the integrity of their society/fortress more than retribution for the guy who punched his friend/dog/<*Artifact Gabbro Cabinet*>. I mean, there are important reasons why barfights in real life aaalmost never escalate into the total breakdown of civil society, lol. Once a fight gets recognized as such, bystanders' attitude towards it changes and contains it to some degree."

Honestly, overall I've kind of hoped that the wholesome side of mythology would start to have a presence in DF as well. I mean, we have detailed simulation of viscera, but not of forgiveness, generosity, or collective sacrifice for each other's benefit, to my knowledge. Hit me with your counterexamples, though. I love hearing DF stories.