Is DF 3D?

[kananesgi]

I'm a Rimworld player, and I absolutely adore Rimworld. I know it was inspired by DF but I've never really looked into DF before now. I'm curious if this has multiple levels to fortresses unlike RM where everything is on the same 2D plane?

That's probably my biggest complaint about RM is I run out of room too quickly. I wish that I could dig down and create sub-levels to my colonies, or build up and overtop of them. I see mentions of stairs and mineshafts in reviews and discussions of DF, so it makes me think that you can build on multiple levels. Is that the case?

[EDIT: I know it's not a 3D FPS type game. When I say 3D, I'm referring to building on multiple levels, as in having height or depth and not just building across a map. I see now that it does indeed have z-axis building.]

[Art]

There is a Z axis, it's one of the main differences/selling points. It isn't "3D" though.

[Kasa]

Originally posted by Art:

There is a Z axis, it's one of the main differences/selling points. It isn't "3D" though.

well it's 3D in the way the OP is asking at least.

[Namdaets]

Yes. You can build towers/pits/ravines/multi-level constructions with relative ease, unlike in Rimworld.

[McFuzz]

Yes. Too many bedrooms? Just build stairs and build more bedrooms on top. Or below. Or throw goblins into a giant hole that breaks their legs.

[The Trashman]

Originally posted by kananesgi:

I'm a Rimworld player, and I absolutely adore Rimworld. I know it was inspired by DF but I've never really looked into DF before now. I'm curious if this has multiple levels to fortresses unlike RM where everything is on the same 2D plane?

That's probably my biggest complaint about RM is I run out of room too quickly. I wish that I could dig down and create sub-levels to my colonies, or build up and overtop of them. I see mentions of stairs and mineshafts in reviews and discussions of DF, so it makes me think that you can build on multiple levels. Is that the case?

Yep, you can dig down straight into the ground with a staircase, or carve an area down a level with channel digging. Then you have a whole new, mostly solid stone, layer to mine a base into. There are lots of layers like this, around 100, so you have a lot of room to play with. You can also build up off the ground, if you want something to do with all the stone you've mined

[Teemo]

Originally posted by Art:

There is a Z axis, it's one of the main differences/selling points. It isn't "3D" though.

In what way isn't it 3D? Like because it's on a computer screen and you're not playing a board game?

[Mobbstar]

Originally posted by Teemo:

In what way isn't it 3D?

The viewport is 2D. You cannot rotate the camera in any way, there is no way to get a vertical cross-section of the world.

[Namdaets]

Z-levels make the game 3D (i.e. north-south, east-west, up-down), but the graphics are 2D (i.e. no 3D models are rendered -- just 2D sprites).

Edit: This is more-or-less semantics. People use the terms 2D/3D to mean different things.

[Tikigod]

Originally posted by kananesgi:

I'm a Rimworld player, and I absolutely adore Rimworld. I know it was inspired by DF but I've never really looked into DF before now. I'm curious if this has multiple levels to fortresses unlike RM where everything is on the same 2D plane?

That's probably my biggest complaint about RM is I run out of room too quickly. I wish that I could dig down and create sub-levels to my colonies, or build up and overtop of them. I see mentions of stairs and mineshafts in reviews and discussions of DF, so it makes me think that you can build on multiple levels. Is that the case?

Kind of a complicated question with how Dwarf Fortress is designed.

The game is technically 3D in all intents and purposes, not only is there multiple plane layers but tile depth is also simulated for things like fluid behaviour and determining if something can pass over a tile.

A bolt fired from a crossbow off the edge of a cliff will travel along your current 'level' horizontally and vertically across tiles and gradually lose height and drop down the layers until it eventually lands on a surface on a lower Z-layer, but the game itself has a top down flat camera perspective.

But the game world itself is broken down into what it calls 'Z-Layers' and each layer is displayed to the player as a 2D plane (with visibility possible down to lower Z-Layers).

Grasping how the world is actually built, and how the tiles are regarded is actually a pretty important starting hurdle to getting your head into the right frame of mind understanding how many of the game tools behave, and not understanding it is why you see a lot of reports of "Stairs being bugged" when actually, they work perfectly fine..... people just aren't wrapping their head around how the DF world is structured.

The DFWiki has a wealth of good explanations about pretty much every imaginable aspect of the game and is certainly worth checking out if you want to fully understand the deeper aspects of the game and how it's designed.

For example:
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Tile
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Stairs

[Abekongen]

Originally posted by Teemo:

Originally posted by Art:

There is a Z axis, it's one of the main differences/selling points. It isn't "3D" though.

In what way isn't it 3D? Like because it's on a computer screen and you're not playing a board game? [/quotedo you know what 3d means, bc all boardgames are 3d

[Tarithel]

Originally posted by Teemo:

Originally posted by Art:

There is a Z axis, it's one of the main differences/selling points. It isn't "3D" though.

In what way isn't it 3D? Like because it's on a computer screen and you're not playing a board game?

By having a 3rd dimension in the map you plan in not just a 2 dimensional one.

If you want a 3d visualisation wait for the Armok View mod to be ported...

[kananesgi]

Originally posted by Tikigod:

Originally posted by kananesgi:

I'm a Rimworld player, and I absolutely adore Rimworld. I know it was inspired by DF but I've never really looked into DF before now. I'm curious if this has multiple levels to fortresses unlike RM where everything is on the same 2D plane?

That's probably my biggest complaint about RM is I run out of room too quickly. I wish that I could dig down and create sub-levels to my colonies, or build up and overtop of them. I see mentions of stairs and mineshafts in reviews and discussions of DF, so it makes me think that you can build on multiple levels. Is that the case?

Kind of a complicated question with how Dwarf Fortress is designed.

The game is technically 3D in all intents and purposes, not only is there multiple plane layers but tile depth is also simulated for things like fluid behaviour and determining if something can pass over a tile.

A bolt fired from a crossbow off the edge of a cliff will travel along your current 'level' horizontally and vertically across tiles and gradually lose height and drop down the layers until it eventually lands on a surface on a lower Z-layer, but the game itself has a top down flat camera perspective.

But the game world itself is broken down into what it calls 'Z-Layers' and each layer is displayed to the player as a 2D plane (with visibility possible down to lower Z-Layers).

Grasping how the world is actually built, and how the tiles are regarded is actually a pretty important starting hurdle to getting your head into the right frame of mind understanding how many of the game tools behave, and not understanding it is why you see a lot of reports of "Stairs being bugged" when actually, they work perfectly fine..... people just aren't wrapping their head around how the DF world is structured.

The DFWiki has a wealth of good explanations about pretty much every imaginable aspect of the game and is certainly worth checking out if you want to fully understand the deeper aspects of the game and how it's designed.

For example:
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Tile
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Stairs

So it's something like a top-down colony version of Minecraft then?

My apologies, too, for confusion about the term "3D." I assumed that anyone would understand what I'm talking about. Obviously it's not a 3D FPS, that's not what I'm talking about.

[shoopy]

Originally posted by kananesgi:

Originally posted by Tikigod:

Kind of a complicated question with how Dwarf Fortress is designed.

The game is technically 3D in all intents and purposes, not only is there multiple plane layers but tile depth is also simulated for things like fluid behaviour and determining if something can pass over a tile.

A bolt fired from a crossbow off the edge of a cliff will travel along your current 'level' horizontally and vertically across tiles and gradually lose height and drop down the layers until it eventually lands on a surface on a lower Z-layer, but the game itself has a top down flat camera perspective.

But the game world itself is broken down into what it calls 'Z-Layers' and each layer is displayed to the player as a 2D plane (with visibility possible down to lower Z-Layers).

Grasping how the world is actually built, and how the tiles are regarded is actually a pretty important starting hurdle to getting your head into the right frame of mind understanding how many of the game tools behave, and not understanding it is why you see a lot of reports of "Stairs being bugged" when actually, they work perfectly fine..... people just aren't wrapping their head around how the DF world is structured.

The DFWiki has a wealth of good explanations about pretty much every imaginable aspect of the game and is certainly worth checking out if you want to fully understand the deeper aspects of the game and how it's designed.

For example:
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Tile
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Stairs

So it's something like a top-down colony version of Minecraft then?

My apologies, too, for confusion about the term "3D." I assumed that anyone would understand what I'm talking about. Obviously it's not a 3D FPS, that's not what I'm talking about.

Pretty much. You can think of each tile as a cube. The main difference is that the cubes in DF come in two parts, the main part and a floor part. It lets you mine out every level and still have a floor to walk on in most cases.

[kananesgi]

Originally posted by ardiel:

Originally posted by kananesgi:

So it's something like a top-down colony version of Minecraft then?

My apologies, too, for confusion about the term "3D." I assumed that anyone would understand what I'm talking about. Obviously it's not a 3D FPS, that's not what I'm talking about.

Pretty much. You can think of each tile as a cube. The main difference is that the cubes in DF come in two parts, the main part and a floor part. It lets you mine out every level and still have a floor to walk on in most cases.

Ok, cool. I just saw that in the wiki articles referenced by @Tikigod. I think I see how it works now. I might look into it when I feel like I've got some free time to try to learn it.

[Teemo]

Originally posted by Mobbstar:

Originally posted by Teemo:

In what way isn't it 3D?

The viewport is 2D. You cannot rotate the camera in any way, there is no way to get a vertical cross-section of the world.

Ok, even if you had a view point that was say isometric and you could see multiple z levels at once, it would still be the exact same game otherwise. There would still be 3 dimensions of space the dwarves are running around in. Also, even if you had an isometric view, it's still technically a 2D view. All computer games ever have simulated a 3D environment on a 2D display (unless you could those VR headset games now).