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Classic Doom players try beating levels without saving (without dying). Some levels there are as long as 30-40 mins which is insane to me. Prodeus campaign's 10-15 minute levels seems pretty doable in comparison.
The game was made for bursts of 10-15 minutes of you flying through a level killing enemies. It gets even more apparent after you buy the dash. After dying you can just continue the action after respawning or stop it and restart the level. It was made for you to replay the same levels multiple times.
The level design is amazing.
Yesterday I did Descent all the way to the final battle and died. So yeah, I used a nexus point because I was tired.
Starting the Hazard without any armor, I was doing bad. Just playing sloppy and jumping across the green stuff. I started that over around 3 times before I finally found some armor. Played it all the way through without a save.
Pushed through the Meltdown and almost died in that final battle. Either way, I would like to see the rest of this 1.0 campaign. I'm not going to burn through it and get disappointed. It's the players choice how they want to play.
I still say for them to have a mode without save points. There are plenty of games that do it already. You die and you are done, problem solved.
I mean that depends if you doing repeated runs for high scores, or not. Everything about the marketing says its basically Doom 2.5 and then when you have it running you find it's a bait and switch score attack game, if you enjoy it power to you but having such an awful checkpoint system with the getout that you could just start from scratch instead seems like some really hostile design, why not just have a snapshot system like basically every other checkpoint based game in existence? You could still have the time and deaths counted against repeated tries
Hmmmm... I don't know something about your profile pic give me the sense that I can't trust you.
Just joking even though I don't agree with you at all. I am about 12hrs in (maybe 1.5hr spent on multiplayer), and I'm having a great time. Levels are short and succinct enough to do them in one go and if you die its not like you wasted hours of your time if you choose to start from a level from the beginning.
There are not many people here arguing that they "enjoy" the checkpoints feature (or even that its good), its just pointing out the fact that you can experience that oldschool "Doom-like" experience if you just don't use the checkpoints at all.
I believe everyone here would be fine with an alternate save system or even a toggle to turn off the checkpoints entirely. However, the people enjoying this game are playing it just like they did playing OG shooters, set to hard difficulty, no quick saves spamming (or using the checkpoint system in this case), and just restarting of the whole level if you die. Now I know everyone does not play like this but ignoring features in OG shooters like this to make the game challenging is not a new concept and it has been used since the genres conception.
Just like in other modern shooters like Amid Evil, Dusk, Ion Fury...etc. Those have quick save/load systems but I never really use them unless I am secret hunting (Ion Fury being the exception because that game has TONS of secrets to find), all the other times I'm going through the levels one go or trying again. To each their own but a challenge in these type of games has never come from abusing quick save system or this checkpoint system (both systems completely remove urgency or challenge), the challenge in these games has always come down to going through the levels trying to make it to the end in 1 life (at least for me it is).
For me the issue seems to be that for those who want the middle ground experience (not too hard but also not too easy), don't really have an option to save mid map and resume. So, I do see the reasonable complaints but for me personally, a feature that I never even utilize, will not hamper this very good shooter.
That's the thing, though. Even the people defending the Nexus points system are defending it because they don't care about it, not because they like it. Their argument is that they have no reason to use it. That's not a very strong defense. I'm not gonna say that checkpoints are ruining my time with the game--I'm having a blast!--but they don't add anything to the game, either.
I'd love the option to turn Nexus points off entirely, and I'd love the option to use them as traditional checkpoints. Not because levels are too long, or anything; if you don't have time for one level uninterrupted, you just don't have time to game right now. I say this as an adult with a job. But checkpoints are a happy medium between savescumming and starting the level over, when implemented properly. (Since every level is effectively a checkpoint, we're really just debating how frequent checkpoints should be for optimal tension without undue frustration.)
And given how many difficulty options there are, relatively undifferentiated, it would be nice if NPs behaved differently on different levels. On the low end, they work just like they do now. The cinematic/casual mode. At the high end, they're gone entirely. And in the middle, they save a snapshot so you can reload the current encounter but you can't cheese your way through it by regaining all your health while all the enemies stay dead.
I'd even be happy with the option to use NPs as extra lives, since your supply would be finite. It still wouldn't make the game more difficult, but at least in theory you'd have to be paying attention to beat the level. And there's always easy mode if that's not your cup of tea.
I don't really disagree with most of what you said besides the checkpoint system being useless. The checkpoint system is fine for very casual players who just want to go through the levels and not lose progress, so even if they may be a minority, the current system still has a purpose for those type of players.
The reason there are people sounding like they are defending this system is because there are people on the opposite side of the spectrum that make it seem like the checkpoint system 100% invalidates (and ruins) everything else the game does great and this is just not true.
Imo if someone has an issue with the checkpoint system and also wants to fly through the levels, there are EASY difficulties that are so easy the checkpoint system will not even need to be utilized, so even for them it should not be as much as an issue that people make it out to be.
We all agree an alternative would be a good idea but people writing off this game entirely ONLY because of a system that can be ignored is just dumb imo.
You want a positive thing about the checkpoint system? It's blazing fast. It has no loading screen. A traditional save/load would have a loading screen. Sure, depending on the hardware that could be ignored. But it is also super simple to develop, specially for consoles.
So I can 100% get why the dev would go for it.
Would I want it rather had a traditional saving system? idk. I don't personally care for "doing a fight perfectly" if I had to retry it several times using saves. I think it would work nicely for practicing it, yeah, for a single-segment run. But it is more of a convenience than anything else.
Because you have elite players say it caters to casual players. When in truth, they use it!
Yeah, I think the criticism is way overblown. Could be better, but the game as a whole is fantastic. I don't think setting it to easy really answers the core complaint, though. I want to play it on harder difficulties with the option to replay only a short snippet if I screw up. Harder gameplay with smaller, but still extant, penalties. The checkpoint system is for people that don't want to fly through the levels, and the solution isn't to turn down the difficulty until the checkpoints become (pardon the phrasing) pointless.
I don't necessarily want to turn them off personally, although the option would be nice. I just prefer a middle ground between having to restart and being able to brute force my way through. I'll admit that the current system is fast, but it doesn't do what a lot of people seem to want--and doing the wrong thing fast isn't better than doing the right thing slow. At any rate, what I really want is for it to be configurable, so if you like the way things are now, you can still do that. Use the current system, use traditional checkpoints, or turn it off entirely, your call.
This sort of thing isn't super helpful. I don't care how other people play the game. I might even be what some consider a casual. I'm not interested in leaderboards, which is why the checkpoint system concerns me to begin with. I want checkpoints exactly because I don't care enough to start over for a deathless run, but I still want a challenge.
Telling me to restart the level isn't helpful, either. The whole point of checkpoints (there it is again) is that we don't want to start over, but we still want a challenge. We're not elitists, we're not just whiners, we're people who play and enjoy the game and want to see it get even better.
With Prodeus telling us to let point be the driving factor alone you catapult us back in the Atari era.
This scoring thing is just rationalization. People are trying to create an explanation for bad mechanics.
The truth is that the game does not have a save/load system, so it is impossible for the checkpoints to recover a previous state of the level. The actual "checkpoints" only exist to avoid frustration for those who don't like to repeat a level several times.
I was down to 7 health at one point and still survived. Didn't care about my nexus save, was playing to survive and it was intense.
On long levels where you go back and collect stuff, I wish I could save. But that's not this type of game.
For me to say get rid of the nexus doesn't matter. You either complete the level or don't.
This is simple. Play Gloomwood or even Brutal Doom/Brutal Doom 64 mods. You have a lot of customization everywhere. For example, a FEW people complained about the save system in Gloomwood. And devs told "okay, we will give you another save system with the custom difficulty setting". No one is asking for a complete change of the system - understandably there are a lot of people who are fine with this 'god mode checkpoint system'. We are asking for is an option where we have normal checkpoints - one where dead enemies are respawned after the checkpoint being loaded. I bought Prodeus, played on the hardest difficulty level, didn't like the checkpoint system and refunded the game. I bought Ultra Overkill and it's much much better even in Early Access.