Bard's bow or Ox crossbow ?

[Hoenir;]

Just got the wasp queen defeated, my current range gear is, Moth armor and legs with the marksman hat. Now people say that Bard's has a higher DPS and by being faster it would trigger Mutations faster. Is that true ? Ox crossbow does almost twice the damage of bard's...

[sturmrufer]

This Question i asking myself for Weeks now. I did a lot of Testing and i still don´t have the right Answer.

But what i can say is this:


The Bards Bow shoots way more Arrows so the Chance is much higher for critical Hits in Comparisson to the Ox CB. On Top of that, the Bards bow gain with Upgradelevel 6 an critical Hitchance Modifier, what leads to multiple Critchains. 6 Crits in a Row was my Record. And here it gets complicated,

I use the Mantis full Armor and run a complete Critbuild. But i use this only against Bosses. It Deals much quicker high Amounts of Damage and gives me the Advantage of non stop Firing, and blocking Attacks is not incredible punishing like it is with the CB.

The Ox CB is a killing Tool to get rid of anything else, than Bosses. Black Ox Beetles died many Times instantly, thanks to a Cone i found what has Salt Damage up Best, Salt Damage Major and Implement Weakness Salt.


But with entering NG+ the Tides have turned. The Crossbow is much stronger bcs of the new Effects from Arcane Archer or Implement Weakness Stats. In Combination with the Trapper Mutation, perfect Toast and Critdamage up Best on a Cone, your Crits hit with 180% higher Critdamage, and this turns the Crossbow into an incredibel Killingmachine what shreds Bosses HP in Seconds. Can´t wait to get an infused one with an extra Critdamage up Best Stat on it. In total i will be able to land crits thats deals 240% higher Critdamage.

More Testing awaits me if i get the first Infused Versions of Both Bowtypes. What i have found out by reading the Wiki entries for the Bards Bow, The infused Version don´t have the Critmod on it. But i´m not sure about that. I asked a Modder to check this in the Gamefiles and i´m waiting for an Answer of him.

One Tip. Don´t use the Antlion Armor. It is absolute Crap! The 40% faster Reaload is a Joke. The Best Alternative for me personal is the Mantisarmor. It provides Critchance, Stun and Bleed if you do a Crithit. You will deal insane Damage and the Bossfights are much shorter. No other Armor or Combination of Armors performed better for me than the Mantis Armor.

Sry for the bad English. I hate this Language and i´m too lazy to use any kind of Translator :P

Have Fun

[Hoenir;]

Originally posted by sturmrufer:

This Question i asking myself for Weeks now. I did a lot of Testing and i still don´t have the right Answer.

But what i can say is this:


The Bards Bow shoots way more Arrows so the Chance is much higher for critical Hits in Comparisson to the Ox CB. On Top of that, the Bards bow gain with Upgradelevel 6 an critical Hitchance Modifier, what leads to multiple Critchains. 6 Crits in a Row was my Record. And here it gets complicated,

I use the Mantis full Armor and run a complete Critbuild. But i use this only against Bosses. It Deals much quicker high Amounts of Damage and gives me the Advantage of non stop Firing, and blocking Attacks is not incredible punishing like it is with the CB.

The Ox CB is a killing Tool to get rid of anything else, than Bosses. Black Ox Beetles died many Times instantly, thanks to a Cone i found what has Salt Damage up Best, Salt Damage Major and Implement Weakness Salt.


But with entering NG+ the Tides have turned. The Crossbow is much stronger bcs of the new Effects from Arcane Archer or Implement Weakness Stats. In Combination with the Trapper Mutation, perfect Toast and Critdamage up Best on a Cone, your Crits hit with 180% higher Critdamage, and this turns the Crossbow into an incredibel Killingmachine what shreds Bosses HP in Seconds. Can´t wait to get an infused one with an extra Critdamage up Best Stat on it. In total i will be able to land crits thats deals 240% higher Critdamage.

More Testing awaits me if i get the first Infused Versions of Both Bowtypes. What i have found out by reading the Wiki entries for the Bards Bow, The infused Version don´t have the Critmod on it. But i´m not sure about that. I asked a Modder to check this in the Gamefiles and i´m waiting for an Answer of him.

One Tip. Don´t use the Antlion Armor. It is absolute Crap! The 40% faster Reaload is a Joke. The Best Alternative for me personal is the Mantisarmor. It provides Critchance, Stun and Bleed if you do a Crithit. You will deal insane Damage and the Bossfights are much shorter. No other Armor or Combination of Armors performed better for me than the Mantis Armor.

Sry for the bad English. I hate this Language and i´m too lazy to use any kind of Translator :P

Have Fun

Hi, thanks for the reply !
My next goal is to go for Mantis too, if i can defeat it haha
Thanks for all the info and testing, I was doing some myself and I saw almost no difference haha Still feels like Ox is a cannon and what you said Is very interesting, Bard for bosses and Ox for rest, I might use that strat.
I saw a video on youtube about a guy using the Arcane Ox, almost one shooting everything but that was like you said on NG+ !

[happygiggi]

It mostly end to the flavor of ranger you want to be. Also bow have a charged shot that does hit hard too. Need to keep the bow fully pull for a whole second.

Now if you want to be archer for the fun, then wasp armor is good, still keep the head slot for bard/marksman.

And make the legs sleeks, this way, with the right rythm of about half a second full bend before shooting, you'll use both of the wasp effect.
Uncharged shot trigger the faster charge buff.
Charge buff make you chain the charged shot, wich trigger the stamina recovery on uncharged.

You'll never run out of stamina this way while shooting down a rain of charged shots mostly.

Also for accessory the needle stay strong all the way for the bows.

That's it, I'm not counting for the NG+ content, didn't explore much.

[sturmrufer]

Originally posted by Hoenir:

Hi, thanks for the reply !
My next goal is to go for Mantis too, if i can defeat it haha
Thanks for all the info and testing, I was doing some myself and I saw almost no difference haha Still feels like Ox is a cannon and what you said Is very interesting, Bard for bosses and Ox for rest, I might use that strat.
I saw a video on youtube about a guy using the Arcane Ox, almost one shooting everything but that was like you said on NG+ !

Glad to help you.
But i have one Question. Did you understand why i prefer Bards Bow for Bosses instead of CB? There is a specific Reason for my Choice.

The Mantis is very easy. Just Stay behind the Tree or behind the Mantis. It´s up to you. Both Strats gives you an Advantage to kill the Boss much easier. Tip. If you use Saltarrows don´t try to aim for the eyes. It is the Weakpoint of the Boss, but if you use Candyarrows they will not deal Stabdamage anymore. This makes aiming for the Eyes useless.
Human Food is a m ust have in this Fight besides all the other Buff Stuff. Some Distraction like the Mant Mutation also helps alot. If you have a Pet, preferably an Antbaby, stay behind it. It can absorb Attacks of Enemys and acts like a Tank. I know, it is a bit cheesy, but the Fight is one of the hardest. We have a Speaking in Germany. In War and Love, every Dirty Trick is allowed :D

I know exactly which Youtuber you mean, i watched the Vids about the Arcane Archer Build too. But in my Opinion there are better Choices for the Armor. Ofc. this is arguably ;)
He is using most of the Time the Mintarrows to slowdown his Targets. This might work on the noninfused Bugs, but gets meaningless when it comes for infused Bugs with speedbuffs. Imagine a little spider with Highspeed, Sour + Explosive Buff....good Luck on hitting that with an Arrow. For this Case i have the Staffs. They saved me so many Times ;) They profit from the Mantarmors Buffs too.


Btw, in the Basegame i prefer in every Build Thors Pendant as Trinket. It is a perfect Allrounder to deal with every Enemy. It provides so many Bonusses, but mainly i use it bcs it is the only Trinket what provides 1% Critchance and 10% higher Critdamage.

If you have any Questions, feel free to ask.

[BiggestBonehead]

Depends on how you use it. Personally I find the crossbow cheaper and I don't use it often, mostly to grab big bug's attention. It already has an arrow loaded and serves it purpose well. However if you plan to fight with purely ranged dmg, the wasp bow is the way to go. It seems based on your playstyle and armor that ranged is the case, so I would recommend wasp bow. Although its base dmg is lower, the faster speed makes it do a lot over time and the armor/bow ability/mutations mesh well. Hope this helps.

(my aim is piss anyway so take this opinion with a grain of salt)

[Hoenir;]

Originally posted by sturmrufer:

Originally posted by Hoenir:

Hi, thanks for the reply !
My next goal is to go for Mantis too, if i can defeat it haha
Thanks for all the info and testing, I was doing some myself and I saw almost no difference haha Still feels like Ox is a cannon and what you said Is very interesting, Bard for bosses and Ox for rest, I might use that strat.
I saw a video on youtube about a guy using the Arcane Ox, almost one shooting everything but that was like you said on NG+ !

Glad to help you.
But i have one Question. Did you understand why i prefer Bards Bow for Bosses instead of CB? There is a specific Reason for my Choice.

The Mantis is very easy. Just Stay behind the Tree or behind the Mantis. It´s up to you. Both Strats gives you an Advantage to kill the Boss much easier. Tip. If you use Saltarrows don´t try to aim for the eyes. It is the Weakpoint of the Boss, but if you use Candyarrows they will not deal Stabdamage anymore. This makes aiming for the Eyes useless.
Human Food is a m ust have in this Fight besides all the other Buff Stuff. Some Distraction like the Mant Mutation also helps alot. If you have a Pet, preferably an Antbaby, stay behind it. It can absorb Attacks of Enemys and acts like a Tank. I know, it is a bit cheesy, but the Fight is one of the hardest. We have a Speaking in Germany. In War and Love, every Dirty Trick is allowed :D

I know exactly which Youtuber you mean, i watched the Vids about the Arcane Archer Build too. But in my Opinion there are better Choices for the Armor. Ofc. this is arguably ;)
He is using most of the Time the Mintarrows to slowdown his Targets. This might work on the noninfused Bugs, but gets meaningless when it comes for infused Bugs with speedbuffs. Imagine a little spider with Highspeed, Sour + Explosive Buff....good Luck on hitting that with an Arrow. For this Case i have the Staffs. They saved me so many Times ;) They profit from the Mantarmors Buffs too.


Btw, in the Basegame i prefer in every Build Thors Pendant as Trinket. It is a perfect Allrounder to deal with every Enemy. It provides so many Bonusses, but mainly i use it bcs it is the only Trinket what provides 1% Critchance and 10% higher Critdamage.

If you have any Questions, feel free to ask.

I get it,at least i think i get it xD you prefer the bards bow since you can shoot it like an automatic rifle haha brrrrrr
As for the trinket, I mainly use thor's too, It has a little bit of everything and the crit on top of it, and for the Mantis, I just found out that I need to kill the Spider first, so it will be some time till i face the Mantis haha The little pet helps a lot too, it gets some aggro away from me. Thanks for all the tips and tricks brother ! Vielen dank !

[БАТУА]

In my opinion, you shouldn't focus on playing with a bow in this game, there's much more damage with a two-handed weapon (tier 3) sharpened to 9 (or 15 in NG+). I agree that at an early stage, when you don't have good armor or a strong weapon, a bow helps you survive. But once you've defeated the Queen of Wasps, you can afford a quality build with a melee weapon. I play on NG4+ and don't use a bow or crossbow at all, sometimes I take out the Queen of Ants' Staff to aggro a mob.

[sturmrufer]

Originally posted by Hoenir:

I get it,at least i think i get it xD you prefer the bards bow since you can shoot it like an automatic rifle haha brrrrrr
As for the trinket, I mainly use thor's too, It has a little bit of everything and the crit on top of it, and for the Mantis, I just found out that I need to kill the Spider first, so it will be some time till i face the Mantis haha The little pet helps a lot too, it gets some aggro away from me. Thanks for all the tips and tricks brother ! Vielen dank !

Yeah i love fast firing Weapons. Just like our German MG3 former 42 :P Just kidding.

I prefer the Bards Bow bcs it safes a Ton of Stamina, what i can use to avoid Attacks or kite the Enemy.

The BB only uses 7 Stamina per Shot while the CB uses 24. Thats massive and the Damege to Stamina ratio is very poor. This is not the only Reason.

Since the BB gains the Critmod at Level 6 i can reach Critnumbers above 50% and even higher if i would change something. Crit do way more than higher Damage. Critical Hits stuns Enemys and can even interrupt Specialattacks like the Charge of Black Ox Beetles etc. But more important, it can even interrupt Bosses. In one of my best Fights so far, i was able to stunlock the Waspqueen during the whole Fight. On top of that i beat her with just using 3/4 of my Staminabar.

Like i said before, with NG+ everything will change for you, if you are lucky and find one of the Cones with Arcane Archer. It feels like you beat the Game, bcs the Bugs falls like Apples.
I was in NG+4 so far, but rerolled back to Normal Game after the Update to completely start NG+ all over again. I´m now back in NG+2 again but i take my Time to prepare more things before i jump into higher NG+

My biggest Advice to you...TAKE YOUR TIME and don´t rush into NG+ You will regret it instantly.

Wait....are you german?

Originally posted by Hoenir:

! Vielen dank !

EDIT: I got just a Minute ago an Answer from the Modder i asked about the Critchance on the BB.

Here is his Answer:
" I look around, and although I couldn't guarantee what I am looking at, but from what I have seen, the Bard Bow Critical Chance is 20% Flat on default I think "

Man if this is the Case....uff this would be insane! But would explain why i have so many Critchains.

[Hoenir;]

Originally posted by sturmrufer:

Originally posted by Hoenir:

I get it,at least i think i get it xD you prefer the bards bow since you can shoot it like an automatic rifle haha brrrrrr
As for the trinket, I mainly use thor's too, It has a little bit of everything and the crit on top of it, and for the Mantis, I just found out that I need to kill the Spider first, so it will be some time till i face the Mantis haha The little pet helps a lot too, it gets some aggro away from me. Thanks for all the tips and tricks brother ! Vielen dank !

Yeah i love fast firing Weapons. Just like our German MG3 former 42 :P Just kidding.

I prefer the Bards Bow bcs it safes a Ton of Stamina, what i can use to avoid Attacks or kite the Enemy.

The BB only uses 7 Stamina per Shot while the CB uses 24. Thats massive and the Damege to Stamina ratio is very poor. This is not the only Reason.

Since the BB gains the Critmod at Level 6 i can reach Critnumbers above 50% and even higher if i would change something. Crit do way more than higher Damage. Critical Hits stuns Enemys and can even interrupt Specialattacks like the Charge of Black Ox Beetles etc. But more important, it can even interrupt Bosses. In one of my best Fights so far, i was able to stunlock the Waspqueen during the whole Fight. On top of that i beat her with just using 3/4 of my Staminabar.

Like i said before, with NG+ everything will change for you, if you are lucky and find one of the Cones with Arcane Archer. It feels like you beat the Game, bcs the Bugs falls like Apples.
I was in NG+4 so far, but rerolled back to Normal Game after the Update to completely start NG+ all over again. I´m now back in NG+2 again but i take my Time to prepare more things before i jump into higher NG+

My biggest Advice to you...TAKE YOUR TIME and don´t rush into NG+ You will regret it instantly.

Wait....are you german?

Originally posted by Hoenir:

! Vielen dank !

EDIT: I got just a Minute ago an Answer from the Modder i asked about the Critchance on the BB.

Here is his Answer:
" I look around, and although I couldn't guarantee what I am looking at, but from what I have seen, the Bard Bow Critical Chance is 20% Flat on default I think "

Man if this is the Case....uff this would be insane! But would explain why i have so many Critchains.

hahaha yea, if you can make the bard's bow fire like the MG 42, then that's the way xD

On top of that with the crit chain + stun lock, that would be insane plus if the 20% flat crit change is true, damn..

I just taking my time, I'm too noob to jump straight into NG+ especially if I didnt defeat all the bosses around. My only one was the waspqueen to which, I got to be honest, I used the glitch strat haha

Also, ob ich Deutsch bin ? jaein. Bin halb Deutsch aber in Sued Amerika aufgewachsen. Lebe jetzt, ja gut 9 Jahren in DE. Mit dem Deutschen Sprache, vertraue ich mir noch nicht 100% xD

Danke fur die Tips und hilfe !

[sturmrufer]

Originally posted by Hoenir:

Also, ob ich Deutsch bin ? jaein. Bin halb Deutsch aber in Sued Amerika aufgewachsen. Lebe jetzt, ja gut 9 Jahren in DE. Mit dem Deutschen Sprache, vertraue ich mir noch nicht 100% xD

Danke fur die Tips und hilfe !

Warum sagst Du nicht gleich das Du deutsch sprichst? Ich blamier mich hier mit meinem eingerosteten Englisch bis auf die Kochen XD

Du schreibst sehr gut in deutsch, fast schon perfekt! Das finde ich fantastisch! Lob und Anerkennung!
Nur eine Kleinigkeit, es heißt: "mit der deutschen Sprache" Sorry ist der Deutsche in mir :D

Die 20% Critchance wurde noch nicht bestätigt, ist eher vage anzusehen. Ich bin grad im Game und teste den BB ergiebig aus.

Und wie Du es angehst ist es schon absolut richtig. Übereile es mit NG+ nicht. Leider ist es sehr eintönig und langweilig, obendrein musst Du mit jeder neuen NG+ Stufe nocheinmal das Javamatic Event neu abschliessen. Aber ich hab da ein paar Dinge herausgefunden, die das Event lächerlich einfach machen :D

Wenn Du Discord hast, können wir uns gerne darüber einmal austauschen. Wäre ein win win für Dich. Du lernst was vom Spiel und perfektionierst Deine Deutschkenntnisse ;)

Liebe Grüße

[BiggestBonehead]

Originally posted by БАТУА:

In my opinion, you shouldn't focus on playing with a bow in this game, there's much more damage with a two-handed weapon (tier 3) sharpened to 9 (or 15 in NG+). I agree that at an early stage, when you don't have good armor or a strong weapon, a bow helps you survive. But once you've defeated the Queen of Wasps, you can afford a quality build with a melee weapon. I play on NG4+ and don't use a bow or crossbow at all, sometimes I take out the Queen of Ants' Staff to aggro a mob.

Real, antlion sword goated imo

[Eightball]

Originally posted by sturmrufer:

Tip. If you use Saltarrows don´t try to aim for the eyes. It is the Weakpoint of the Boss, but if you use Candyarrows they will not deal Stabdamage anymore. This makes aiming for the Eyes useless.

I don't think this is exactly how candy augments work so I had to look around for information. So what I found was as follows:

- 'If a weapon has two non-candy types as the default, baseline damage types, such as the Scythe of Blossoms having both chopping and slashing type, when you upgrade this weapon and choose to apply a candy type to it, the second original type gets removed and replaced with the chosen candy type. In the case of Scythe of Blossoms the slashing type is removed and replaced with the candy type. The Chopping type remains and the weapon is ultimately treated as a Chopping + Candy damage type weapon.'

-If a weapon has a damage type of generic then that damage type is completely replaced by a candy type when upgraded to that candy.

-If a weapon starts off as a candy type weapon, such as Mint Mace and Salt Morning Star, it remains a pure candy type damage (minus a few exceptions such as the Sour Battle-Axe which is sour + chopping and the Spicy Coaltana which is spicy + slashing.

-All other primary damage types (stabbing, busting, etc.) besides generic are not removed/replaced when upgrading with a candy type. The candy type just adds that flavor of damage in addition to the baseline type damage.


So the crossbow is stabbing and remains stabbing regardless of the arrows used. The arrows then 'add' a flat candy damage to their base damage.

When upgrading weapons with a candy type the icon will often change, for instance a sour scimitar will show a lemon/line instead of a slashing symbol, but it will still do both sour and slashing damage.

Yeah, totally obvious stuff am I right!