Spears or bow?

[t3gk]

Hi, at the start of the game I was so tilted, in max difficult cause a simple ant took me 50% hp and how I learned kill them is using spears, but I see so many type of arrows and I'm curious about that, arrows take more hp from bugs than spears?

[TyresTyco]

The dmg of the spear throw recently got buffed. If it does more dmg than bows on woah! I dunno.. I don't play on the highest difficulty. It's pretty hard and unbalanced imho.

That said. Throwing the spear forces you to either craft a lot more or to pick it up again which can be a pain if you get two shot by everything. While you can just spam arrows and pick em up once the bug is dead. Inventory slots are super limited so using spear throws as main dmg source could be a pretty meh.

Special arrows (mint, spicey etc) are a heavy grind tho. I wouldnt advice to use many of them. You will need the elemental ressources for different stuff later.

[blackphoenixx]

The only advantage non-specialty arrows have over spears is that they stack. Well, and crossbows have longer range and flatter firing arcs.

Otherwise spears are superior in pretty much every way - they do far more damage, you can use them with a shield, you can block while using them and unlike elemental arrows they aren't one-shot items.

That goes double for tier 1. The sprig bow is only good for hunting aphids and gnats, for combat you'll do much better with a couple of pebblet spears.

It's not just early game though, with Javelineer throwing a fresh rusty spear can be used to one- or twoshot even many endgame enemies - notably ladybird larva and fire ant workers - so it's not like you need to carry more than 2 or 3 of them to get some great use.

If you're only using your crossbow to pull anyway replacing it and the arrows with 2-3 spears of the highest tier you can craft is pretty much all upside. A thrown spear does plenty of damage even to bugs that aren't weak to stabbing, so it's a great opener before wading into melee (or to kill mosquitos).

But if you're a dedicated ranged fighter carrying enough spears to not run out mid-combat is a problem - and unlike arrows you don't pick them up just by running over them. An upgraded tier 3 spear glitching under the ground or getting lost is also far more annoying to replace than a lost arrow.

[Vental]

Originally posted by t3gk:

Hi, at the start of the game I was so tilted, in max difficult cause a simple ant took me 50% hp and how I learned kill them is using spears, but I see so many type of arrows and I'm curious about that, arrows take more hp from bugs than spears?

Dude, when you unloke javiline mutation, spear throws are INSANE. . . even on just the basic pebble one. On normal difficulty, you can take out a stink bug and bomb beetle with just 7 pebble throws with that mutation. Strongest early game weapon. The down side through is having multiple of them means giving up inventory space. So it's a give-take relation. It also means giving up a mutation slot.

That being said, it's my main weapon. Nothing comes close to how much a single point of damage does from what I seen (but I haven't seen much).

[Vental]

Originally posted by blackphoenixx:

But if you're a dedicated ranged fighter carrying enough spears to not run out mid-combat is a problem - and unlike arrows you don't pick them up just by running over them. An upgraded tier 3 spear glitching under the ground or getting lost is also far more annoying to replace than a lost arrow.

Aren't upgrade materials a finite resource? I wouldn't waste them on spears then since you are eventually going to lose your spear by not being able to find it.


There is one other advantage to bows though. And that's to aggro flying enemies from a distance without having to lose something important if you miss. Once aggroed, they will come to you to where you can then change to spear. I got early game bee stuff from the baseball using this method.

[Jaggid Edje]

Originally posted by Vental:

Aren't upgrade materials a finite resource?

No, they are not. While marble and quartzite is a finite resource, they are not upgrade materials, they are the ingredients in some of the recipes for the actual upgrade materials. There are also recipes which you unlock to make those same upgrade materials from renewable resources. Ergo, 'upgrade materials' are not finite. At least not in the long term.

[Vental]

Originally posted by Jaggid Edje:

Originally posted by Vental:

Aren't upgrade materials a finite resource?

No, they are not. While marble and quartzite is a finite resource, they are not upgrade materials, they are the ingredients in some of the recipes for the actual upgrade materials. There are also recipes which you unlock to make those same upgrade materials from renewable resources. Ergo, 'upgrade materials' are not finite. At least not in the long term.

Yooooo, hit me with a [/spoiler] and explain to me what that unlock recipe is and how you get it. Cause that sounds REALLY cool! O.O

[Jaggid Edje]

Originally posted by Vental:

Yooooo, hit me with a [/spoiler] and explain to me what that unlock recipe is and how you get it. Cause that sounds REALLY cool! O.O

You unlock the ability to purchase the recipe for brittle whetsones and plating which use renewable ingredients (insect parts) after collecting and turning in the Burg.L chip from the Black Anthill Lab. Buying it costs 1500 raw science. The name of it is "Advanced Smithing: Brittle Upgrades".

You unlock the ability to purchase the recipe for Sturdy whetstones and plating using renewable ingredients after you turn in the Burg.L chip from the Stump. It costs 1,500 raw science and the name of it is "Advanced Smithing: Sturdy Upgrade"

You unlock the ability to purchase the recipe for Supreme whetstones and plating after Killing Director Schmector

The supreme ones are pretty much at the end of the game and the Sturdy ones are pretty late in the game, but the brittle ones are so early there's no reason to be conservative at all with upgrades up to level 5 (imo). Especially when you also consider just how much brittle marble and quartzite you find throughout the game. There's a ton of it.

[Vental]

Originally posted by Jaggid Edje:

Originally posted by Vental:

Yooooo, hit me with a [/spoiler] and explain to me what that unlock recipe is and how you get it. Cause that sounds REALLY cool! O.O

You unlock the ability to purchase the recipe for brittle whetsones and plating which use renewable ingredients (insect parts) after collecting and turning in the Burg.L chip from the Black Anthill Lab. Buying it costs 1500 raw science. The name of it is "Advanced Smithing: Brittle Upgrades".

You unlock the ability to purchase the recipe for Sturdy whetstones and plating using renewable ingredients after you turn in the Burg.L chip from the Stump. It costs 1,500 raw science and the name of it is "Advanced Smithing: Sturdy Upgrade"

You unlock the ability to purchase the recipe for Supreme whetstones and plating after Killing Director Schmector

The supreme ones are pretty much at the end of the game and the Sturdy ones are pretty late in the game, but the brittle ones are so early there's no reason to be conservative at all with upgrades up to level 5 (imo). Especially when you also consider just how much brittle marble and quartzite you find throughout the game. There's a ton of it.

So to what I said earlier, for the most part still applies at-least in regards to upgrading with supreme unless you beat the game. So basically. . . don't upgrade past level 5 for spears for the most part (depending on progression).

I'll look up what the renewable recipe (ingredients) are myself then. Thank you for the info, I know where I am going next in my playthrough. cx

[TyresTyco]

Just sayin. Getting the stump chip is the most rage inducting thing the game can give you imho. I nearly quit the game because of that. After 2 hours sweaty and angry tryharding... I got it but it felt like ♥♥♥♥ since it's so unsatisfying to do.

Thinking about doing it again in a new save because I want to get more cheevos (turned weapon degrading down 1 day before they did the last patch >.<).. literally makes me playing another game.

[blackphoenixx]

Even when you can't craft sturdy whetstones yet it's better to spread the upgrades around.
The only upgrade that REALLY counts is the one to level 6, for an element to take advantage of double weaknesses.
And that only takes 5 sturdy whetstones, you'll get quite a few more just doing the labs.

Until you can craft those from spider fangs you're better off getting more level 6 elemental weapons instead of upgrading them to level 7 (which takes twice the mats for a mere 5% increase in damage - don't bother, you probably won't even notice it) or going for mighty (double the cost in whetstones but only 5% more damage than elemental against non-resistant bugs).

The damage increase from an element a bug is weak against is the biggest damage bonus you can get for your whetstones by far, so your first goal should be to cover as many double weaknesses as you can manage with the stones you have.
Upgrading to level 7 and above can come later.

Originally posted by TyresTyco:

Just sayin. Getting the stump chip is the most rage inducting thing the game can give you imho. I nearly quit the game because of that. After 2 hours sweaty and angry tryharding... I got it but it felt like ♥♥♥♥ since it's so unsatisfying to do.

Did you do it in 1st person view? Because i found it much easier in 3rd person.

You can also use photo mode's freecam to look around for where to go without pressure.

[TyresTyco]

First Person. Next time I will try it in third person.. thanks for the advice, now I kinda feel stupid for not trying it that way. Finding the spots to jump on isn't the issue. Getting through all of it without falling all the way down is. Getting back up after pushing the button also was meh.

Didn't expect some hard platforming after getting through most of the game.

[Jaggid Edje]

Originally posted by TyresTyco:

Didn't expect some hard platforming after getting through most of the game.

I've been procrastinating on advancing the game because of everything I've heard here and on reddit about that platforming part in the Stump. I despise platforming games. I would rather play, literally, any other genre of game than a platformer.
They are not fun for me, I'm not very good at them, and they frustrate me to no end when a game from a different genre decides to put platforming as part of progression.

...Some games that do it at least make it 'relatively easy' platforming, but I've read a lot of complaints about the stump so I'm nervous, and downright dreading it.

The game has some platforming elements all throughout though, and it's all friendly and fun enough that I haven't minded. I'm hoping some of what I've read about the Stump is just exaggeration.