Progression Path

[Gaia]

So I don't have this game on steam but on PC Game pass, but, I was wondering what the recommended way to go about progression is for the bosses in the game? Currently I'm trying to work on getting the Widow Armor set to prep myself for Broodmother, as I'm primarily using a dagger for damage with the assassin mutation. Currently I have the Spider Armor leveled up to 5 and the Venom Dagger to 5 as well. My end goal is getting the Assassin Armor and the Blossom Scythe.

[6teaNEIN?]

are you talking about optional bosses only?

broodmother is the easiest boss, seriously, if you are killing black widows, you will have no problem with broodmother. black widows are much tougher than broodmother.

wasp queen is easy-medium difficulty. the hardest thing about it, is killing all the wasps and nests in order to open the arena in the first place.

mantis is atleast medium+. you are required to have beaten broodmother, as you need the parts to craft the item to summon it.

infected broodmother is near impossible for most. you need to have beaten broodmother, wasp queen and mantis, as the summoning item requires parts from all 3 previous bosses. this fight is no joke.

so yeah, broodmother > wasp queen > mantis > infected broodmother

[Gaia]

Originally posted by Pʂყƈԋσ Pυϝϝʂ:

are you talking about optional bosses only?

broodmother is the easiest boss, seriously, if you are killing black widows, you will have no problem with broodmother. black widows are much tougher than broodmother.

wasp queen is easy-medium difficulty. the hardest thing about it, is killing all the wasps and nests in order to open the arena in the first place.

mantis is atleast medium+. you are required to have beaten broodmother, as you need the parts to craft the item to summon it.

infected broodmother is near impossible for most. you need to have beaten broodmother, wasp queen and mantis, as the summoning item requires parts from all 3 previous bosses. this fight is no joke.

so yeah, broodmother > wasp queen > mantis > infected broodmother

Oh okay, that helps a lot, also I didn't think Black Widow's would be tougher than Broodmother, that surprises me considering Widow's are just free roam enemies, but thanks for the information!

[pcdeltalink]

Originally posted by Pʂყƈԋσ Pυϝϝʂ:

are you talking about optional bosses only?

broodmother is the easiest boss, seriously, if you are killing black widows, you will have no problem with broodmother. black widows are much tougher than broodmother.

wasp queen is easy-medium difficulty. the hardest thing about it, is killing all the wasps and nests in order to open the arena in the first place.

mantis is atleast medium+. you are required to have beaten broodmother, as you need the parts to craft the item to summon it.

infected broodmother is near impossible for most. you need to have beaten broodmother, wasp queen and mantis, as the summoning item requires parts from all 3 previous bosses. this fight is no joke.

so yeah, broodmother > wasp queen > mantis > infected broodmother

I haven't fought broodmother since she got buffed but from what I saw her buffs were significant (roar debuff, poison on back hop, etc) and I would still say she's harder and/or more annoying than black widows. Black widows are essentially just faster wolf spiders. Easy with a bit of practice and you don't have minions you're forced to deal with simultaneously like with broodmother.

[6teaNEIN?]

Originally posted by pcdeltalink:

Originally posted by Pʂყƈԋσ Pυϝϝʂ:

are you talking about optional bosses only?

broodmother is the easiest boss, seriously, if you are killing black widows, you will have no problem with broodmother. black widows are much tougher than broodmother.

wasp queen is easy-medium difficulty. the hardest thing about it, is killing all the wasps and nests in order to open the arena in the first place.

mantis is atleast medium+. you are required to have beaten broodmother, as you need the parts to craft the item to summon it.

infected broodmother is near impossible for most. you need to have beaten broodmother, wasp queen and mantis, as the summoning item requires parts from all 3 previous bosses. this fight is no joke.

so yeah, broodmother > wasp queen > mantis > infected broodmother

I haven't fought broodmother since she got buffed but from what I saw her buffs were significant (roar debuff, poison on back hop, etc) and I would still say she's harder and/or more annoying than black widows. Black widows are essentially just faster wolf spiders. Easy with a bit of practice and you don't have minions you're forced to deal with simultaneously like with broodmother.

her buff was a joke. she is still a joke. even with ads.

easily killed with just T1 gear. the same can't be said for black widow.

black widow can't be compared to wolf, really. much higher health, faster attacks, and a longer timer on poison debuff + black widow also has her own ads. there are always widowlings alongside her, and they can also easily poison you..

[pcdeltalink]

Originally posted by Pʂყƈԋσ Pυϝϝʂ:

Originally posted by pcdeltalink:

I haven't fought broodmother since she got buffed but from what I saw her buffs were significant (roar debuff, poison on back hop, etc) and I would still say she's harder and/or more annoying than black widows. Black widows are essentially just faster wolf spiders. Easy with a bit of practice and you don't have minions you're forced to deal with simultaneously like with broodmother.

her buff was a joke. she is still a joke. even with ads.

easily killed with just T1 gear. the same can't be said for black widow.

black widow can't be compared to wolf, really. much higher health, faster attacks, and a longer timer on poison debuff + black widow also has her own ads. there are always widowlings alongside her, and they can also easily poison you..

It's comparable in that the attacks are the exact same. It has the same attacks as the wolf spider and takes the 3 hit combo from the orb weavers. If you can perfect block those you can take down a black widow no problem. Just things are sped up a bit.

[blackphoenixx]

Originally posted by pcdeltalink:

It's comparable in that the attacks are the exact same. It has the same attacks as the wolf spider and takes the 3 hit combo from the orb weavers. If you can perfect block those you can take down a black widow no problem. Just things are sped up a bit.

The same applies to most of the broodmothers attacks, only she's much slower and less tough than a black widow.

And the adds are basically a non-factor as soon as you get a spicy staff or craft a few splatbursts.

[6teaNEIN?]

Originally posted by pcdeltalink:

Originally posted by Pʂყƈԋσ Pυϝϝʂ:

her buff was a joke. she is still a joke. even with ads.

easily killed with just T1 gear. the same can't be said for black widow.

black widow can't be compared to wolf, really. much higher health, faster attacks, and a longer timer on poison debuff + black widow also has her own ads. there are always widowlings alongside her, and they can also easily poison you..

It's comparable in that the attacks are the exact same. It has the same attacks as the wolf spider and takes the 3 hit combo from the orb weavers. If you can perfect block those you can take down a black widow no problem. Just things are sped up a bit.

the attack pattern is the only thing comparable.

like I said, much higher health. that means, the fight takes longer. the longer the fight, the more opportunity of messing up.
like I said, widowlings are always involved, which complicate matters even further. wolfs have no such aid.
like I said, widows poison seems to last longer, and eat more health than that of a wolf.
like I said, her attacks are faster. so, if you are used to orbs and wolfs, you will struggle with widow, atleast at first.

all these things make widows incomparable to wolfs. sure, they share a similar attack pattern (as do all spiders) but, between a wolf and a widow, it's like 2 completely different fights.

broodmother literally doesn't compare. her attacks are incredibly slow, well telegraphed and her ads are trivial to deal with. so it's even easier to perfect block all of her attacks, easy to deal with her minions, and she has less health.

and if the only difference in spiders was "just thing are sped up abit", then surely, it wouldn't be so hard for so many people to beat even the infected broodmother, let alone just a widow, right?

[blackphoenixx]

Originally posted by Pʂყƈԋσ Pυϝϝʂ:

and if the only difference in spiders was "just thing are sped up abit", then surely, it wouldn't be so hard for so many people to beat even the infected broodmother, let alone just a widow, right?

Most of those people also have trouble with wolf spiders. Or even orb weavers. So that's a non-argument if there ever was one.

I don't disagree that the widow is the harder fight between the two, but it's literally a retextured faster wolf spider with better stats. Sure, it has more health, but you also have better weapons, armor and perks when you fight your first black widow (and hopefully some experience).

And as long as you're not playing on Whoa - which you really shouldn't if you suck at blocking - you can just hold block through the widows attacks instead of parrying and STILL win if you have a shield and enough smoothies, which really shouldn't be a problem at that point in the game.

You just can't fail to block several attacks in a row, and if that's regularly an issue for someone i question how they got far enough to fight a black widow in the first place.

If you can reliably parry wolf spiders it shouldn't take you more than 5 minutes to get used to the higher speed.


Of course pretty much the same arguments apply to the broodmother, with the main difference being that you have to get used to not blocking too early if you're trained on wolf spiders. The hardest part about that fight is the adds, and those are a non-issue with any kind of aoe damage.

[pcdeltalink]

Originally posted by Pʂყƈԋσ Pυϝϝʂ:

like I said, much higher health. that means, the fight takes longer. the longer the fight, the more opportunity of messing up.
like I said, widowlings are always involved

The only one I can think of where widowlings are a factor is the one in the cave you have to drop into from above. Any other black widow I was always able to very carefully lure out the widowlings and deal with them before the main spider was aware.

Originally posted by Pʂყƈԋσ Pυϝϝʂ:

like I said, widows poison seems to last longer, and eat more health than that of a wolf.

Well of course it does. Black widows have venom, not poison. And they can also proc multiple stacks of the venom on you with each bite adding another stack. You get more than 3 or so on you and you're probably going to be in real trouble or spam drinking a ton of smoothies.

Originally posted by Pʂყƈԋσ Pυϝϝʂ:

broodmother literally doesn't compare. her attacks are incredibly slow, well telegraphed and her ads are trivial to deal with. so it's even easier to perfect block all of her attacks, easy to deal with her minions, and she has less health.

The only issue with Broodmother is that roars are apparently unblockable and cause knockdown, even with a shield (and her roar now debuffs you I believe). And her backward jumps (which I believe also poison you now) have no warning or tell to it before it happens. So it's a cheap shot insta poison. Those are the only parts of the updated broodmother I was even remotely concerned about.

Originally posted by blackphoenixx:

I don't disagree that the widow is the harder fight between the two, but it's literally a retextured faster wolf spider with better stats. Sure, it has more health, but you also have better weapons, armor and perks when you fight your first black widow (and hopefully some experience).

Originally posted by blackphoenixx:

You just can't fail to block several attacks in a row, and if that's regularly an issue for someone i question how they got far enough to fight a black widow in the first place.

If you can reliably parry wolf spiders it shouldn't take you more than 5 minutes to get used to the higher speed.

This. Exactly this. Black widows are end game enemies. By the time you are fighting them on the regular you should be well experienced in the yard and with blocking spiders to the point where they are fairly easy (albeit a bit tedious) to deal with.

Originally posted by blackphoenixx:

And as long as you're not playing on Whoa - which you really shouldn't if you suck at blocking

I can say they are surprisingly not as scary as it may seem on Whoa. I thought they were going to be an issue but by the time I got to them they weren't bad. Just slow kills. The venom was even pretty forgiving with 1 or even 2 failures not being guaranteed death for me.

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by Pʂყƈԋσ Pυϝϝʂ:

are you talking about optional bosses only?

so yeah, broodmother > wasp queen > mantis > infected broodmother

Wasp queen is much harder than Mantis at least on Whoa!. The adds are not one shots and the healing she gets from Dones makes her a long slog where you're far more likely to get smacked down. Super annoying fight too with the healing. Mantis wasn't that bad because it's one target and she telegraphs her attacks quite early.

[blackphoenixx]

Originally posted by Shockwave:

Originally posted by Pʂყƈԋσ Pυϝϝʂ:

are you talking about optional bosses only?

so yeah, broodmother > wasp queen > mantis > infected broodmother

Wasp queen is much harder than Mantis at least on Whoa!. The adds are not one shots and the healing she gets from Dones makes her a long slog where you're far more likely to get smacked down. Super annoying fight too with the healing. Mantis wasn't that bad because it's one target and she telegraphs her attacks quite early.

The charged attack from the (upgraded) sour staff kills the adds quickly and easily. It makes the fight pretty trivial imo.