Grounded
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STOP Buying Early Access Games!!
Stop supporting the early access market and start forcing devs to actually finish a game before it released... dont give them money for something they will abandon in the future not finished... remember the good days of gaming when a game came out fully finished.. with only a few minor updates needed. The way gaming is now is just ridiculous... early access everything with no content at all and people keep buying the garbage... Please STOP!
Автор сообщения: WOLFHORS3:
I think the real issue is that Yes there are small indie companies that NEED to build a game like this i.e. early access but the premise of early access has allowed many unethical or incompetent devs to cash in and really give some people a bad taste in their mouth for EA games.
The larger issue is that AAA game companies, who HAVE the money to finish a game, are now using this as an excuse to put out crappy buggy games and claim "early access" and still sell their product at full retail price.
I guess my statement would be STOP buying early access games from AAA companies that have plenty of money or companies that are using that games sales revenue to invest in other projects or company expansion and try to save it for small devs that are passionate about their game and sell at a less than full retail price.
The gaming industry on the whole has gone from a model where game companies would not dare to release a game without giving out review copies because everyone would know the game sucked to a model where they sell you on a game with great cut scenes or little movies that are not indicative of the game and show no gameplay what so ever and then if the game is buggy or sucks, claim early access.
Not to kick a dead horse but Bethesda pushed it to the limit by selling preorders for FO76 at full retail price without ever really letting you know ALL the details of the game. And to add insult to injury you had to BUY the game at full retail price to even play the beta and find out. Oh yeah and no refunds. So they sold you a game that you weren't sure what it was or how it worked or even if it worked and then wouldn't refund your money if you didn't like it. And this was all enabled by the "early access" trend that really wasn't meant for them. A multi billion dollar triple AAA game company should be putting out quality finished games but they aren't doing that anymore because they can sell it with cutscenes and early access branding and never have to prove their game is good or even works right.
So to sum up, should you buy e.a. games? small indie dev with passion and no bad record, sure. Larger dev investing game sales revenue in other things, maybe, AAA companies with tons of cash, NEVER.
If gamers would refuse to buy these AA and AAA games without first seeing gameplay from independent sources, like journos and reviewers, we would not be dealing with the crappy games and fraudulent behavior that we deal with now but we won't because we as gamers fall for the "be first" hype and the "gotta have it now now now" mentality rather than make them make decent games. We let the bean counters win. We get the games we deserve.
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Сообщения 7690 из 102
Автор сообщения: Dead LungS
.. early access whether you guys want to admit or not has deff done damage to the gaming industry. for us the gamers .. not the devs.

No, it really hasn't... are you old enough to know WHY Nintendo felt the need to slap their "Official Nintendo seal of Quality" on every single title released for their consoles?

A main reason for the video game industry crash of 1983 was the uprise of infamously bad games on the market, most notably E.T. for the Atari 2600, which was heavily advertised and consumers lost faith in the industry.

The very kind of nonsense you blame EA for is as old as the Atari. When Steam released their EA system to devs/consumers the market didn't crash, nor has it since. YoY growth is still on the rise.
Отредактировано G4M5T3R; 20 авг. 2020 г. в 9:10
Автор сообщения: G4M5T3R
Автор сообщения: Dead LungS
.. early access whether you guys want to admit or not has deff done damage to the gaming industry. for us the gamers .. not the devs.

No, it really hasn't... are you old enough to know WHY Nintendo felt the need to slap their "Official Nintendo seal of Quality" on every single title released for their consoles?

A main reason for the video game industry crash of 1983 was the uprise of infamously bad games on the market, most notably E.T. for the Atari 2600, which was heavily advertised and consumers lost faith in the industry.

The very kind of nonsense you blame EA for is as old as the Atari. When Steam released their EA system to devs/consumers the market didn't crash, nor has it since. YoY growth is still on the rise.

Exactly!

Early access has, for better and worse, allowed a large amount of games to be developed that otherwise would not have. As gamers, we're in a golden age, with a wonderful variety of games and more new and inventive games than ever. It has its downsides, of course, but the upside is quite fantastic - and all that is required for avoiding the downside is a bit of buyer discretion.

To be fair, that's mostly what Dead LungS is advocating, except I think his concerns are a bit misplaced here.
Отредактировано Falaris; 20 авг. 2020 г. в 10:22
Автор сообщения: Falaris
Early access has, for better and worse, allowed a large amount of games to be developed that otherwise would not have. As gamers, we're in a golden age, with a wonderful variety of games and more new and inventive games than ever. It has its downsides, of course, but the upside is quite fantastic - and all that is required for avoiding the downside is a bit of buyer discretion

Mark that as your answer OP. It's factually correct AND aligns with your opinion.

EA/DLC/Microtransactions are all just tools. In the case of Grounded, a Sandbox Survival, which tool would you prefer that they use? The devs have openly admitted there are no plans for paid DLC and I don't see any Lootboxes...

But couldn't Obsidian afford to develop this game on their own? Probably, the game would most likely suffer for it though. Besides, they have bigger IP's in the works to fund. In case you haven't noticed they're kinda busy setting themselves up to take over Bethesda's throne as they fall from grace.

You either die a hero or become the villain.
Автор сообщения: G4M5T3R
Автор сообщения: Falaris
Early access has, for better and worse, allowed a large amount of games to be developed that otherwise would not have. As gamers, we're in a golden age, with a wonderful variety of games and more new and inventive games than ever. It has its downsides, of course, but the upside is quite fantastic - and all that is required for avoiding the downside is a bit of buyer discretion

Mark that as your answer OP. It's factually correct AND aligns with your opinion.

EA/DLC/Microtransactions are all just tools. In the case of Grounded, a Sandbox Survival, which tool would you prefer that they use? The devs have openly admitted there are no plans for paid DLC and I don't see any Lootboxes...

But couldn't Obsidian afford to develop this game on their own? Probably, the game would most likely suffer for it though. Besides, they have bigger IP's in the works to fund. In case you haven't noticed they're kinda busy setting themselves up to take over Bethesda's throne as they fall from grace.

You either die a hero or become the villain.

The game is made by a small group of devs inside Obsidian as a passion project. Companies don't just hand out money freely to whatever project some employees want to work on, that's a great way to go bankrupt. They are extremely strict and count every penny, especially in regards to unusual projects that aren't mainstream guaranteed successes. So the team for Grounded likely couldn't secure the budget they needed to fully realize the game, so they turned to Early Access for additional funding. It's the exact same reason many devs take Epic up on exclusivity offers, because the guaranteed minimum payout ensures that, worst case scenario, they don't go bankrupt.
We hear about these funding issues constantly when it comes to movies and tv, games are no different.
Автор сообщения: Dead LungS
Stop supporting the early access market and start forcing devs to actually finish a game before it released... dont give them money for something they will abandon in the future not finished... remember the good days of gaming when a game came out fully finished.. with only a few minor updates needed. The way gaming is now is just ridiculous... early access everything with no content at all and people keep buying the garbage... Please STOP!

Or you know...let people do what they want? Some people really like the game even if it's just in early access.
Отредактировано McKeviin; 21 авг. 2020 г. в 17:25
I definitely think early access is a risk. If I see early access, I watch lots of Let's Plays, before purchasing. I've been pretty lucky so far: the only three I have are Grounded, Raft, and Stranded Deep and all are well worth the money IMO.
So after 6 pages of argument.. I'll continue to support developers.. in early access games, because I like the idea they're selling.. I don't care if it's an indie or aaa company.
Отредактировано Martin; 22 авг. 2020 г. в 0:38
Автор сообщения: Martin
So after 6 pages of argument.. I'll continue to support developers.. in early access games, because I like the idea they're selling.. I don't care if it's an indie or aaa company.

It is definitely the best way to support developers. If they have to have a publisher, that is a bit more than it sounds. The publisher will front the bills, but as they take most of the risk*, they will take all the profits and then some. A developer who works with a publisher will never more than break even - they estimate their expenses, and that's all the payment they'll see. Unless the game does fantastically well, at which point they may see a couple of dollars. The only way to break out of that cycle is with EA or kickstarter games. It's rather annoying, really - even big-name developers are living mostly hand to mouth, because it's the publisher that takes all the profits if they do well. And if they don't... let's just say they have a big interest in not flopping. I'd like to see the creative minds rewarded, not the suits.

(*According to them. Of course, if the game flops, the developer is as often as not chopped up and sold for parts.).
Отредактировано Falaris; 22 авг. 2020 г. в 1:34
Автор сообщения: Falaris
Автор сообщения: Martin
So after 6 pages of argument.. I'll continue to support developers.. in early access games, because I like the idea they're selling.. I don't care if it's an indie or aaa company.

It is definitely the best way to support developers. If they have to have a publisher, that is a bit more than it sounds. The publisher will front the bills, but as they take most of the risk*, they will take all the profits and then some. A developer who works with a publisher will never more than break even - they estimate their expenses, and that's all the payment they'll see. Unless the game does fantastically well, at which point they may see a couple of dollars. The only way to break out of that cycle is with EA or kickstarter games. It's rather annoying, really - even big-name developers are living mostly hand to mouth, because it's the publisher that takes all the profits if they do well. And if they don't... let's just say they have a big interest in not flopping. I'd like to see the creative minds rewarded, not the suits.

(*According to them. Of course, if the game flops, the developer is as often as not chopped up and sold for parts.).

So the term 'indie' means nothing then if 'most' developers work with other companies.
As i said before (to many others), there are only a few real indie games.
Thanks for the clarification :)
Автор сообщения: Dead LungS
Stop supporting the early access market and start forcing devs to actually finish a game before it released... dont give them money for something they will abandon in the future not finished... remember the good days of gaming when a game came out fully finished.. with only a few minor updates needed. The way gaming is now is just ridiculous... early access everything with no content at all and people keep buying the garbage... Please STOP!

Well to be honest i prefer to play a good EA game where devs will place stuff in game that players actually ask for (like in Grounded) rather than buy AAA game that has some crap systems that i dislike.
Автор сообщения: Progjeツ
Автор сообщения: Falaris

It is definitely the best way to support developers. If they have to have a publisher, that is a bit more than it sounds. The publisher will front the bills, but as they take most of the risk*, they will take all the profits and then some. A developer who works with a publisher will never more than break even - they estimate their expenses, and that's all the payment they'll see. Unless the game does fantastically well, at which point they may see a couple of dollars. The only way to break out of that cycle is with EA or kickstarter games. It's rather annoying, really - even big-name developers are living mostly hand to mouth, because it's the publisher that takes all the profits if they do well. And if they don't... let's just say they have a big interest in not flopping. I'd like to see the creative minds rewarded, not the suits.

(*According to them. Of course, if the game flops, the developer is as often as not chopped up and sold for parts.).

So the term 'indie' means nothing then if 'most' developers work with other companies.
As i said before (to many others), there are only a few real indie games.
Thanks for the clarification :)

That's not what I said, and nothing I said would support that statement, unless you misunderstood something. I'll happily help to clarify if you point out what caused you to interpret it that way.

With that said, Obsidian are not Indie. But if you see the interviews with Chris Taylor where he explains this stuff, you'll understand - Early Access is one of the ways a company, indie or not, can get a bit out from under the thumb of a publisher. That's a good thing.

I would object to someone demanding that players on principle SHOULD buy early access games, but I would also object to someone suggesting they shouldn't.
I love the people that rate their vidja games like they were prostitutes; by the hour vs initial cost (aka "I got mah monies worth bruh")

LOL not sure when that became a reasonable standard.

Spoiler: Your ROI is better with a prostitute.
Автор сообщения: Falaris
Автор сообщения: Progjeツ

So the term 'indie' means nothing then if 'most' developers work with other companies.
As i said before (to many others), there are only a few real indie games.
Thanks for the clarification :)

That's not what I said, and nothing I said would support that statement, unless you misunderstood something. I'll happily help to clarify if you point out what caused you to interpret it that way.

With that said, Obsidian are not Indie. But if you see the interviews with Chris Taylor where he explains this stuff, you'll understand - Early Access is one of the ways a company, indie or not, can get a bit out from under the thumb of a publisher. That's a good thing.

I would object to someone demanding that players on principle SHOULD buy early access games, but I would also object to someone suggesting they shouldn't.

I know that is not what you said, but that is what i am saying.

I never said that this was an indie game in the post and never pointed someone in a direction to think that way.
Dunno what the big deal is. It's a fun game, why give it an atomic leg drop when you can tag in another player and co-op some Honey, I shrunk the Kids! action.
I dont want a solution, I want to be mad.
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Дата создания: 8 авг. 2020 г. в 19:21
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