Rogue legends should be FUNNER, not harder

[:)]

NK completely missed the mark with legends, which is very unfortunate. For some reason their mentality was to make the base game way harder and less rewarding. If you look at other roguelikes, like, say, Incsryption or balatro, if you get unlucky you die, but if you get lucky you could get a really broken combo that's very FUN to use. If you get unlucky in legends, you die. If you get lucky, you get the privilege of playing a semi normal game of btd6 without as many drawbacks as legends normally has.

Relics:
ALL relics are underpowered. I'm not gonna say I know every single relic yet, but so far, I've found 2 actually interesting relics. One makes all projectiles ricochet, and one makes all burning bloons explode when popped. Why are these interesting and why is basically every other one trash? Because they actually create strategy. Almost all relics right simply buff some tower or set of towers by a SMALL percentage. Percentile buffs CAN be fine, if they're actually significant. And they should be a fraction of the total list of relics. The biggest problem I have is the complete lack of synergy between relics. Let's give a made up example of 2 relics that one their own are somewhat good but together are very powerful. "Fire on bloons spreads to adjacent bloons" and "burning bloons explode when struck". Individually these are pretty good, but together they create an insanely strong fire-centric strategy. Its not just a win button, you'd need both these relics and a good tower/hero for making fire.

Games:
The matches themselves, the core of the game, is uninteresting. These are just your average hard odyssey custom rounds, except theirs NEVER game modifiers. Using inscryption as an example again, there are normal fights, and totem fights. You can choose where along the map you go, so you might choose to brave the harder totem fight because there's something later on the path thats better than the other path. Some gamemode variety is seriously needed. Exclusive tower type modes, abr, apopalypse, etc.

Deck:
This isn't a 'deck' builder but your set of monkeys you carry around are similarish to a deck. Making monkeys come preupgraded is simply a stupid mechanic. The decisions should be made outside the matches, forcing you be constrained even within a game is just unfun. Only way this could maybe be mended is if they removed the extra cost to upgrade.

Campfires:
upgrading units at a campfire is never ever ever useful. you ALWAYS should get a new one, or heal. Simply removing this option (as i clearly think) or if they really want the preupgraded instamonkey thing then make you able to upgrade it 2 or 3 times. Maybe make it random 1-3.

Boss:
fighting bosses is unfun. The final boss of the run being a boss itself was a logical decision i suppose, but its not fun at all because of the constricted tower choices.

[Valthejean]

So one thing I just realized, and I wish I knew this sooner: artifacts you upgrade through the campfire stay upgraded after the run is over, so long as it's an artifact in your permanent collection. I finally won a stage, and sent the explodey darts artifact back, because it made Benjamin actually runnable with his monkey aces. It was silver by the time I got to that point, and it's now silver in my artifact collection. Use this information wisely. If you get one of the few artifacts actually worth getting: UPGRADE IT. That will be the much needed carryover progress that's been lacking in this game mode.
(It's not a lot, I know, but it's better than nothing.)

[Terezi_pyrope]

upgrading a unit at the campfire is useful. buying a 2-0-2 is cheaper than buying a 0-0-0 and upgrading it to 2-0-2. by a LOT. buying an upgraded unit is massively discounted compared to upgrading. so you are objectively wrong here.

[:)]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Terezi_pyrope:

upgrading a unit at the campfire is useful. buying a 2-0-2 is cheaper than buying a 0-0-0 and upgrading it to 2-0-2. by a LOT. buying an upgraded unit is massively discounted compared to upgrading. so you are objectively wrong here.

You're right that it's cheaper, but its still inferior to simply getting an entire new unit. I didnt say it did nothing, I said its never the best option.

[Paiguy]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Terezi_pyrope:

upgrading a unit at the campfire is useful. buying a 2-0-2 is cheaper than buying a 0-0-0 and upgrading it to 2-0-2. by a LOT. buying an upgraded unit is massively discounted compared to upgrading. so you are objectively wrong here.

Part of the issue here is that there are not enough campfires to effectively upgrade units to a higher state, so you're still reliant on buying upgrade in-map or getting random pulls on an upgrade round.

This can leave you straight in the dumpster if you get bad luck and don't pull a usable tier 5 by a certain point.

[Valthejean]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von :):

You're right that it's cheaper, but its still inferior to simply getting an entire new unit. I didnt say it did nothing, I said its never the best option.

It's also worth mentioning that it's really only valuable up to tier 2, maybe 3 depending on the monkey. Because after that point you're rarely ever going to get enough money to actually BUY the tower in the first place. Especially after the first stage, because for some unexplainable reason they set it back to 10 waves per tile, which makes expensive units or money producing units worthless.

[Empress Lina]

more fun* not "funner"

[jottakun máfase]

i agree

[spawrage]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von :):

NK completely missed the mark with legends, which is very unfortunate. For some reason their mentality was to make the base game way harder and less rewarding. If you look at other roguelikes, like, say, Incsryption or balatro, if you get unlucky you die, but if you get lucky you could get a really broken combo that's very FUN to use. If you get unlucky in legends, you die. If you get lucky, you get the privilege of playing a semi normal game of btd6 without as many drawbacks as legends normally has.

Relics:
ALL relics are underpowered. I'm not gonna say I know every single relic yet, but so far, I've found 2 actually interesting relics. One makes all projectiles ricochet, and one makes all burning bloons explode when popped. Why are these interesting and why is basically every other one trash? Because they actually create strategy. Almost all relics right simply buff some tower or set of towers by a SMALL percentage. Percentile buffs CAN be fine, if they're actually significant. And they should be a fraction of the total list of relics. The biggest problem I have is the complete lack of synergy between relics. Let's give a made up example of 2 relics that one their own are somewhat good but together are very powerful. "Fire on bloons spreads to adjacent bloons" and "burning bloons explode when struck". Individually these are pretty good, but together they create an insanely strong fire-centric strategy. Its not just a win button, you'd need both these relics and a good tower/hero for making fire.

Games:
The matches themselves, the core of the game, is uninteresting. These are just your average hard odyssey custom rounds, except theirs NEVER game modifiers. Using inscryption as an example again, there are normal fights, and totem fights. You can choose where along the map you go, so you might choose to brave the harder totem fight because there's something later on the path thats better than the other path. Some gamemode variety is seriously needed. Exclusive tower type modes, abr, apopalypse, etc.

Deck:
This isn't a 'deck' builder but your set of monkeys you carry around are similarish to a deck. Making monkeys come preupgraded is simply a stupid mechanic. The decisions should be made outside the matches, forcing you be constrained even within a game is just unfun. Only way this could maybe be mended is if they removed the extra cost to upgrade.

Campfires:
upgrading units at a campfire is never ever ever useful. you ALWAYS should get a new one, or heal. Simply removing this option (as i clearly think) or if they really want the preupgraded instamonkey thing then make you able to upgrade it 2 or 3 times. Maybe make it random 1-3.

Boss:
fighting bosses is unfun. The final boss of the run being a boss itself was a logical decision i suppose, but its not fun at all because of the constricted tower choices.

LOL you're an idiot. Relics (I assume you mean artifacts) are one of if not THE key to the game, aside from insta monkeys.

Campfires: Getting a new monkey or healing are the STUPISEST 2 ideas. For one thing you have a party limit, another thing once you decide to recruit a new monkey you cant cancel, and if you do you lose your campfire. (bug? If not its cuz NK doesnt want you to get a free mulligan if your choices suck)

In all monkey games 1 strong monkey is almost always better than multiple weak ones, everyone knows that.

:eyeroll:

Anyway yeah I agree legends is too hard. It needs a more gradual learning curve. Round 1 and 2 are a bit easy and Round 3+ is very hard and seems that round 5 would be near impossible for any casual player.

[Arc]

and idiot.

[:)]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von spawrage:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von :):

NK completely missed the mark with legends, which is very unfortunate. For some reason their mentality was to make the base game way harder and less rewarding. If you look at other roguelikes, like, say, Incsryption or balatro, if you get unlucky you die, but if you get lucky you could get a really broken combo that's very FUN to use. If you get unlucky in legends, you die. If you get lucky, you get the privilege of playing a semi normal game of btd6 without as many drawbacks as legends normally has.

Relics:
ALL relics are underpowered. I'm not gonna say I know every single relic yet, but so far, I've found 2 actually interesting relics. One makes all projectiles ricochet, and one makes all burning bloons explode when popped. Why are these interesting and why is basically every other one trash? Because they actually create strategy. Almost all relics right simply buff some tower or set of towers by a SMALL percentage. Percentile buffs CAN be fine, if they're actually significant. And they should be a fraction of the total list of relics. The biggest problem I have is the complete lack of synergy between relics. Let's give a made up example of 2 relics that one their own are somewhat good but together are very powerful. "Fire on bloons spreads to adjacent bloons" and "burning bloons explode when struck". Individually these are pretty good, but together they create an insanely strong fire-centric strategy. Its not just a win button, you'd need both these relics and a good tower/hero for making fire.

Games:
The matches themselves, the core of the game, is uninteresting. These are just your average hard odyssey custom rounds, except theirs NEVER game modifiers. Using inscryption as an example again, there are normal fights, and totem fights. You can choose where along the map you go, so you might choose to brave the harder totem fight because there's something later on the path thats better than the other path. Some gamemode variety is seriously needed. Exclusive tower type modes, abr, apopalypse, etc.

Deck:
This isn't a 'deck' builder but your set of monkeys you carry around are similarish to a deck. Making monkeys come preupgraded is simply a stupid mechanic. The decisions should be made outside the matches, forcing you be constrained even within a game is just unfun. Only way this could maybe be mended is if they removed the extra cost to upgrade.

Campfires:
upgrading units at a campfire is never ever ever useful. you ALWAYS should get a new one, or heal. Simply removing this option (as i clearly think) or if they really want the preupgraded instamonkey thing then make you able to upgrade it 2 or 3 times. Maybe make it random 1-3.

Boss:
fighting bosses is unfun. The final boss of the run being a boss itself was a logical decision i suppose, but its not fun at all because of the constricted tower choices.

LOL you're an idiot. Relics (I assume you mean artifacts) are one of if not THE key to the game, aside from insta monkeys.

Campfires: Getting a new monkey or healing are the STUPISEST 2 ideas. For one thing you have a party limit, another thing once you decide to recruit a new monkey you cant cancel, and if you do you lose your campfire. (bug? If not its cuz NK doesnt want you to get a free mulligan if your choices suck)

In all monkey games 1 strong monkey is almost always better than multiple weak ones, everyone knows that.

:eyeroll:

Anyway yeah I agree legends is too hard. It needs a more gradual learning curve. Round 1 and 2 are a bit easy and Round 3+ is very hard and seems that round 5 would be near impossible for any casual player.

Jester bait used to be believable 💔

[Arc]

Rather than removing nerfs from artifacts as a whole, they should do what actual roguelites tend to do (the good ones anyways) and have multiple classes of artifacts, with the downside/upside ones being extreme trade offs, in their own "cursed" category.
Skul is a good example of this. It has its own specific pool of artifacts that give extreme bonuses for extreme downsides, only accessible on the challenge mode, entirely optional. Everything else is purely helpful.

[Patriotic_Dreams]

not to mention completing a run feel super underwhelming rewarding nothing doesn't even need to be monkey money or anything just give me a fkn unlock or something

[Woody]

There are countless numbers of amazing rogue-lites on the market now. This is sadly not one of them. How do you make such a sub-par game mode with so much inspiration out there?? Huge L from NK on this one.

[Terezi_pyrope]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von :):

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Terezi_pyrope:

upgrading a unit at the campfire is useful. buying a 2-0-2 is cheaper than buying a 0-0-0 and upgrading it to 2-0-2. by a LOT. buying an upgraded unit is massively discounted compared to upgrading. so you are objectively wrong here.

You're right that it's cheaper, but its still inferior to simply getting an entire new unit. I didnt say it did nothing, I said its never the best option.

if you start with a 100 heli, or a 002 ace, it is absolutely more worth getting them to 200 or 003 rather than getting a random assortment of things like a 001 glue, 000 mermonkey, 101 beast handler, 101 village, 020 sniper, 301 sub, and a 011 engineer, meanwhile you have no water for the sub, beast handler, or mermonkey.

it is very context dependent.

[Purple]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mercuriak:

I am paragon 14, 98% of achievements done, killed all elite bosses, finished a race under 5 minutes. I have been playing a long time. After 60 hours in Legends mode, I cannot beat the beginner level. This is just an act of frustration as I feel I am fighting the Devs more than the bloons. I am done with this game until a balance patch comes out. I regret spending $9.99 on this game mode.

0/10 rage bait