Rogue legends should be FUNNER, not harder

[:)]

NK completely missed the mark with legends, which is very unfortunate. For some reason their mentality was to make the base game way harder and less rewarding. If you look at other roguelikes, like, say, Incsryption or balatro, if you get unlucky you die, but if you get lucky you could get a really broken combo that's very FUN to use. If you get unlucky in legends, you die. If you get lucky, you get the privilege of playing a semi normal game of btd6 without as many drawbacks as legends normally has.

Relics:
ALL relics are underpowered. I'm not gonna say I know every single relic yet, but so far, I've found 2 actually interesting relics. One makes all projectiles ricochet, and one makes all burning bloons explode when popped. Why are these interesting and why is basically every other one trash? Because they actually create strategy. Almost all relics right simply buff some tower or set of towers by a SMALL percentage. Percentile buffs CAN be fine, if they're actually significant. And they should be a fraction of the total list of relics. The biggest problem I have is the complete lack of synergy between relics. Let's give a made up example of 2 relics that one their own are somewhat good but together are very powerful. "Fire on bloons spreads to adjacent bloons" and "burning bloons explode when struck". Individually these are pretty good, but together they create an insanely strong fire-centric strategy. Its not just a win button, you'd need both these relics and a good tower/hero for making fire.

Games:
The matches themselves, the core of the game, is uninteresting. These are just your average hard odyssey custom rounds, except theirs NEVER game modifiers. Using inscryption as an example again, there are normal fights, and totem fights. You can choose where along the map you go, so you might choose to brave the harder totem fight because there's something later on the path thats better than the other path. Some gamemode variety is seriously needed. Exclusive tower type modes, abr, apopalypse, etc.

Deck:
This isn't a 'deck' builder but your set of monkeys you carry around are similarish to a deck. Making monkeys come preupgraded is simply a stupid mechanic. The decisions should be made outside the matches, forcing you be constrained even within a game is just unfun. Only way this could maybe be mended is if they removed the extra cost to upgrade.

Campfires:
upgrading units at a campfire is never ever ever useful. you ALWAYS should get a new one, or heal. Simply removing this option (as i clearly think) or if they really want the preupgraded instamonkey thing then make you able to upgrade it 2 or 3 times. Maybe make it random 1-3.

Boss:
fighting bosses is unfun. The final boss of the run being a boss itself was a logical decision i suppose, but its not fun at all because of the constricted tower choices.

[Arc]

hes right u know

[Makoto]

Originally posted by :):

For some reason their mentality was to make the base game way harder and less rewarding.

Odd, my run with Churchill seems to be too easy tbh. Is that because of my hero choice or because of the EXP relic? I get away with a alchemist buff, spike factory and a cheaper dart monkey. I could probably handle it without one or two of them, I think. The amount of level ups are quite insane as long as Churchill gets all the pops.

[Arc]

Why would churchill need to get all the pops? Heroes gain exp per round, not per kill.

[Makoto]

Originally posted by Arc:

Why would churchill need to get all the pops? Heroes gain exp per round, not per kill.

That's a relic, and it comes free with Churchill. A no brainer if you know Churchill btw. I don't know if it's randomized though.

[wistfulplague]

i kinda disagree on the per upgraded thing for monkeys. i played the demo but have not bought i yet (im going to, just wanted to wait for any small patches or balance needed).

if your looking at the party like a deck in a deck builder thats a good point i did not catch. i feel like if they used systems to upgrade your deck as you go and pick or customize then yourself would be great. It would open up the issue of not hitting some balloon types by letting people pick what counters they want and also let people build into their relics and other boosts more as well to encourage synergy.

[Munchies208]

Honestly it feels like it wasn't play tested at all. The Rng is make or break, you either get a workable build or you don't and spending 5 hours just to die to bad rng feels awful, they either need to buff almost all of the relics or give you more rerolls on relics and boosts. I love Btd6 but if I could refund legends I would in a heart beat, I don't know how they managed to mess it up this bad. :/

[Jann]

I agree.

Most of the time it felt like playing the Odyssey game mode, since Relics don't really change how you play the game that much.

If Relics were more interesting or there were more ways to increase how powerful monkeys feel, it would be way more fun. Sure some Relics change how monkeys behave, but most of the time it's either not really noticeable or its a change I simply don't want to make.

Finding cool "builds" and overpowered combinations of powerups is an important factor of what makes roguelikes/roguelite fun. But I feel like the devs kinda missed the mark on this.

[The Mighty Salmon]

Upgrading a monkey is mandatory, the price of getting a tier in monkey is more than twice the amount need to buy it already upgraded, a 0-4-0 dart cost 4880, while the 0-4-0 upgrade cost is 9720.

For the relics, so far i only found three heavily broken relics, essence of phayze, the growing steady and, the strongest of all on a 0-4-2 dart monkey with no pierce bonus, the splody darts.

For a game breaking combo you have the spririt of the forest with the essence of vortex.

[Blood]

and then you have a completely ridiculous one like "Follow Me" that makes Tack Shooters and other towers follow your cursor... Why can you do that to Tack Shooters when they still shoot 8-16 tacks in different directions?
You're just nerfing your Tack by -20% to make it spin..................
I guess the worst part is that when you're forced to pick artifacts and you cannot skip the choice that might disrupt your current loadout

[Toki]

Yeah, the mode doesn't work super well, honestly.
They should make waves easier, I guess. And maybe have some metaprogression for quest stuff which makes the runs easier.
Quest really wants you to get some essentials to have any success.
Altering costs for units would also work. Like making x-2-x village upgrade super cheap so camo popping is less awkward to solve for the DDTs.
Or making heroes give nearby monkeys buffs.

The mode forces you to lean very heavily into fairly boring strategies in each run.
Making it a lot easier and just making optimization less crucial could be good.
I don't really like using the same 2 monkeys in every map for 3 hours straight.


The idea is good. And definitely can work.
And I hope there is an overhaul and some "Draft your starting party of 4 monkeys!" so things feel more varied and less shoehorned.
Maybe starting stuff could always be a draft: "Pick your hero from these 3. Then pick a monkey from these 3 options four times to get your starting crew."

Starting runs being Draft Mode would probably be super fun at least for me.

[Arc]

should let u use 2 heroes
so i can both have sauda to win the game for me and geraldo so i can pretend to be good at it

[klevka]

I agree. My first playthrough felt quite challenging (even though I’ve already clocked over 800 hours in the game). I thought maybe I hadn’t fully grasped the mechanics of the game or the artifacts, but during my second playthrough, the same situation repeated itself. At this point, I simply have no desire to continue playing at such a difficulty level. I really hope the developers address this issue!

[Toki]

Originally posted by klevka:

I agree. My first playthrough felt quite challenging (even though I’ve already clocked over 800 hours in the game). I thought maybe I hadn’t fully grasped the mechanics of the game or the artifacts, but during my second playthrough, the same situation repeated itself. At this point, I simply have no desire to continue playing at such a difficulty level. I really hope the developers address this issue!

Yeah. Same. I've black bordered a lot of the game.
The specific playstyle Quest wants you to do adhere to isn't fun.

[Emil215p]

Originally posted by Blood:

and then you have a completely ridiculous one like "Follow Me" that makes Tack Shooters and other towers follow your cursor... Why can you do that to Tack Shooters when they still shoot 8-16 tacks in different directions?
You're just nerfing your Tack by -20% to make it spin..................
I guess the worst part is that when you're forced to pick artifacts and you cannot skip the choice that might disrupt your current loadout

You can discard unwanted artifacts from the Artifacts menu when on the map at no cost, or you can keep them till you get to a market and sell them.

[Rotgut]

I agree with this post, make new crazy strats and make it fun! There should be difficulty levels where you can do crazy OP stuff and harder where its a challenge.