Rogue Legends is disappointing.

[purpleinsanity]

It's really clear that there was a desire from the devs to make sure that this could be considered a difficult game mode. It was obviously meant to be a challenge for top-tier players. This game mode, however, is something that is structurally appealing to casual players at face value. The tutorial practically capitalizes off of that fact and it is very deceptive as a trial example of the mode. The biggest problem that I see with all of this is that the 'difficulty scaling' is less about difficulty and more about narrowing what play style actually has any chance of being effective without a high amount of luck to support you. There's so much possibility for this to be a multi-faceted appealing game mode to a plethora of types of players, but it really needs some balancing. It already has an extended higher difficulty mode which could be used to impose a narrowing game-play style challenge for people that like to play in neon bite-size anger-inducing logic styles that are favored by a narrow set of types of players such as you'd expect in games like LoL or something.

Yes, it's an angry post. I don't consider myself a crappy player, but I'm definitely not a 'pro-player' either. If you don't play this mode in a very limited set of ways it feels nearly impossible to realistically get anywhere with it. Please consider re-balancing it to allow for more flexible gameplay.

[Paiguy]

Agreed, but I fear we're going to be waiting a while at least until the next major game update for anything substantial since they already rolled out a quick "fix" patch that didn't really do anything besides destroying one of the viable strategies.

[xSil3ntd34thx]

Originally posted by Paiguy:

Agreed, but I fear we're going to be waiting a while at least until the next major game update for anything substantial since they already rolled out a quick "fix" patch that didn't really do anything besides destroying one of the viable strategies.

unannounced and progression inhibiting quick patch*

Also this feels like a bossrush and/or contested territories moment in terms of updating as of right now (but this time money is actually involved too).

[Rhettorical]

It's not disappointing, it's infuriating and not fun. Most of the relics suck. The hero loadouts are terrible. The random rolls for new towers, tower upgrades, and so on, hurts more than it helps. The best run I had was going super well until I hit the final boss: Phayze. Turns out I only had one detector tower. Not even my fault, I literally wasn't given any detection options on my way there.

[Loner4life20]

I wonder if a quick fix could be having every bloon encounter start at round 10 to give people time to set up and just having x amount of relics available in an encounter instead of just giving them out every 3 rounds or however it works. say it is late game you get your relics more spread out throughout the encounter but for early encounters you get faster because you dont need to go as high of rounds.

[Rhettorical]

The problem is the relics are mostly unusable, and those which are usable aren't good. Not when it comes at the cost of being barred from the strongest towers due to the insane upgrade cost.

If they made upgrade costs return to normal, it'd be a huge step in the right direction. The next would be biasing relics towards what your strategy is actually built around. Then they could start giving out actually useful relics. No one cares about a tiny pierce upgrade or a microscopic attack speed boost. It would also be nice if they let you choose your loadout instead of giving you pre-picked towers.

[Killex_one]

Honestly, i cannot agree more that this is very not fun in a lot of ways. Relics have too many downsides, too many set in stone paths for monkeys, and hero loadouts aren't good for most setups.

I don't think there are any real cure alls to fix this in general. But i would honestly say is just remove most of the wave scaling on the bloons -atleast 50% of it currently-, let players reroll one relic choice at chests, hero loadouts let you select an additional monkey, and additional relic of common quality ( total 12 relic choice energy).

I'm not the greatest at bloons but being stuck at either stage 1 or making it to stage 5 with an OP setup with nothing inbetween is kind of absurd.

I also hope the Devs do read this forum, i haven't ever posted here, but it seems like a good time to do so.

[Skyman100]

I only play the game coop and was super excited to get my friends back into the game for a new mode only to find out its sp only.........

[Odio]

Why did simp redditors cheer when the exploding darts got nerfed?

[as1089]

Half of complaints are that it is too easy and the other half are that it is too hard. In reality this means it is too unbalanced. Right now RNG is the determining factor because most relics are useless. One of the relics even causes a memory leak, so it is worse than useless because it crashes your game. This is an abysmal state for the launch of a paid product, and it is yet another NinjaKiwi failure. I have been playing Bloons for many years and it's obvious that in the past 6 months or so NinjaKiwi have been aggressively ramping up monetisation to the point where it will soon no longer be an acceptable level of monetisation for a paid game.

[Valthejean]

Originally posted by as1089:

Half of complaints are that it is too easy and the other half are that it is too hard. In reality this means it is too unbalanced. Right now RNG is the determining factor because most relics are useless. One of the relics even causes a memory leak, so it is worse than useless because it crashes your game. This is an abysmal state for the launch of a paid product, and it is yet another NinjaKiwi failure. I have been playing Bloons for many years and it's obvious that in the past 6 months or so NinjaKiwi have been aggressively ramping up monetisation to the point where it will soon no longer be an acceptable level of monetisation for a paid game.

To be fair, both can be true at the same time. Playing as a character with a 3/0/2 helicopter (if you have Phayse as your starting relic, otherwise 3/2/0) is quite literally an AFK-fest. Meanwhile, playing something like Benjamin with any number of monkeys is actual misery.

I think it's okay to have some artifacts being highly valued and others lowly valued, but at the very least there should not be such a huge disparity between monkey towers like it is. You're still correct that the balance is the problem, but I think it's much much farther than just the artifacts. The biggest problem is that we play so very few rounds, with extremely tough waves right at the start, so the only viable towers are the ones that are immediately strong at very little cost.

[john_9a]

Originally posted by as1089:

...Right now RNG is the determining factor because most relics are useless. One of the relics even causes a memory leak, so it is worse than useless because it crashes your game. ...

And one of the 'rewards' in-game is to get Relics. So the very reward is useless.

It surprises me that the people who created BTD which is fun to play - somehow lost that skill in creating this. puzzling.

[Shyhalu]

The DLC reeks of people designing something they didn't play through themselves.

The balance is trash
The party building is trash
Mentoring makes little sense as it just makes monkeys more expensive.
Half the relics are a punishment or have some horrible downside.

For the price tag and a game this well developed - I'd expect better.....a LOT better.

[idiot5k]

Originally posted by Shyhalu:

The DLC reeks of people designing something they didn't play through themselves.

The balance is trash
The party building is trash
Mentoring makes little sense as it just makes monkeys more expensive.
Half the relics are a punishment or have some horrible downside.

For the price tag and a game this well developed - I'd expect better.....a LOT better.

mentoring DOES make sense if you pay attention. it adds A PART of the upgrade cost, but not the full upgrade cost (you can check this for yourself). effectively its an "pay more upfront and get a discount" type of deal, but i agree with everything else you said and i feel like the game doesnt give enough info for players who dont know the game by heart. in the loadouts you cant check what monkeys or upgrades you get from it. the game just expects you to have memorized all monkeys and monkey upgrade appearances and upgrade paths. same with bosses. phyze shows. great. what does phyze DO tough? cant find it anywhere in rogue legends. you have to go to a completely different gamemode to read up on what the gimmicks of a boss is wich can be very punishing as rethorical said if you dont prep with the boss gimmicks in mind you will just lose, but how are players to prep if they dont know what to prep for? add that the game doesnt tell you what mentoring is for causing people like you to believe its pointless (and honestly, me too untill i noticed it didnt add the full price) and you will see what i mean with the game not giving enough info. add the unbalanced artifacts, with some barely increasing your power, others being completely op and others being actively punishing or have punishing combinations (essence of dreadbloon with overwhelming synergy common actively debuffs magic monkeys by increasing their prices more then it increases their attack power). its a mess

[ankvangoro]

Originally posted by Valthejean:

To be fair, both can be true at the same time. Playing as a character with a 3/0/2 helicopter (if you have Phayse as your starting relic, otherwise 3/2/0) is quite literally an AFK-fest. Meanwhile, playing something like Benjamin with any number of monkeys is actual misery.

yeah its true,
start the game with harlegwen skin (gwen) which is have 2/0/0 heli and 0/0/0 gatling is very smooth and versatile for early game. For me dreadbloon/bloonarius relic are the best option for starting relic because i always restart the campaign until get phayze for first encounter boss :D

yeah.. it is difficult, unbalance and not rewarding enough.

[Blep]

I don't understand how we can have Odyssey out for years and still get a paid game mode that rehashes all the problems with Odyssey but worse. You still have to build every comp from scratch, wait for rounds to pass and income to build, repeat the same strategy as always except monkey ace is your only lead solution cause of the crosspathing, then just cruise on by or abruptly implode. It's like monkey city but on a continuous loop and the experience isn't anything you can't just recreate in base game, especially in the early experimentation phase of players. Random replayability is one factor of a roguelike, yes, but there has to be some degree of continuous action or decision making process to be really good. Bloons is a very hard format to make a good roguelike out of, and I'll be impressed if they figure something out but this ain't it. It would probably require a massive rework that will annoy early buyers, or something more moderate that just ends up lukewarm.