Monkey Knowledge for Beastmaster and Mermonkey

[VY Canis Melodis]

With the ability to get monkey knowledge and spend them on the other towers, it's a little unfortunate that the two new towers have no specialised upgrades for them in the monkey knowledge sector. I worry that they might not quite be balanced for both those who have all the knowledge and those who have very little unlocked.

[Kusarigama]

I think you’re missing the point of your post. If there is no monkey knowledge for them then they are already at full power for those with them unlocked. Also in CHIMPS you get no monkey knowledge so…

[VY Canis Melodis]

I think you're the one missing the point of my post. As the other towers get better as your monkey knowledge increases, the Beastmaster and Mermonkey stay the same. So, they're either more balanced for low monkey knowledge (and chimps) at the cost of being underpowered when monkey knowledge is full, or they're more balanced for when monkey knowledge is full at the cost of being overpowered for when monkey knowledge is low (and chimps).

As an aside, not everyone plays chimps, so the game shouldn't only be balanced around that mode.

[PichuYang]

Originally posted by VY Canis Melodis:

As an aside, not everyone plays chimps, so the game shouldn't only be balanced around that mode.

It also should be balanced to not require full MK at majority of the game modes. Odyssey and Boss mode are a very good example of this. Aside from CHIMPS, many tiles in Contested Territory do not allow MK at all.

Which is why NK most likely having a hard time to give both new towers an exclusive MK at all. They do not feel underpowered without MK, even if we put "no MK = weaker" perspective.

Dear Sun god... been how many times we seen bottom path or Mermonkey and Beastmaster being used...

[VY Canis Melodis]

That was in fact also my point.

[Kusarigama]

Originally posted by VY Canis Melodis:

As an aside, not everyone plays chimps, so the game shouldn't only be balanced around that mode.

Shouldn't be balance around not having full monkey knowledge...? This is a very weird response. Monkey Knowledge should SUPPLEMENT the base tower balance. Case and point HALF-CASH which MOST people hate. It has has the ire of many people to the point where people just say use Insta-monkeys to bypass it. Which that is another point of consideration mind you. People get access to Insta-monkeys, MOAB Mines, Spikes and even bots.

So YES, I do think it should be balanced around CHIMPs. I also have NO idea which towers you claim to be underpowered. There ARE meta builds. This is why Tackzone has been nerfed to death because NK wants people to move to Top path but Tackzone is still a good tower. Same thing with Wizard Monkey with Arcane Spike(thanks to MK)/Archmage just dominating games they are trying to push people into Phoenix.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by Kusarigama:

Originally posted by VY Canis Melodis:

As an aside, not everyone plays chimps, so the game shouldn't only be balanced around that mode.

Shouldn't be balance around not having full monkey knowledge...? This is a very weird response. Monkey Knowledge should SUPPLEMENT the base tower balance. Case and point HALF-CASH which MOST people hate. It has has the ire of many people to the point where people just say use Insta-monkeys to bypass it. Which that is another point of consideration mind you. People get access to Insta-monkeys, MOAB Mines, Spikes and even bots.

So YES, I do think it should be balanced around CHIMPs. I also have NO idea which towers you claim to be underpowered. There ARE meta builds. This is why Tackzone has been nerfed to death because NK wants people to move to Top path but Tackzone is still a good tower. Same thing with Wizard Monkey with Arcane Spike(thanks to MK)/Archmage just dominating games they are trying to push people into Phoenix.

100% everything should be balanced around CHIMPS, no MK required.

Everything else is a novelty mode, CHIMPS is the core challenge the game is built around.

[KingKickAss]

Easy MK for Beast Handler would be the option to unfuse the beasts.

[Ninja Zyborg]

MK is supposed to not have a significant balance change in it

[Lanosa]

I would put the secret top path mermonkey ability (allow water towers around him in non-water terrain) as a monkey knowledge.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by Lanosa:

I would put the secret top path mermonkey ability (allow water towers around him in non-water terrain) as a monkey knowledge.

And you'd be gimping the tower in CHIMPS. No thanks.

[imag2OOO]

maybe a less beasts merged required mk would be nice so instead of like 5 or whatever to get max they just lower it by 1

[Lanosa]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

Originally posted by Lanosa:

I would put the secret top path mermonkey ability (allow water towers around him in non-water terrain) as a monkey knowledge.

And you'd be gimping the tower in CHIMPS. No thanks.

Maybe you're right, NK loves buccanneer, that would be a huge nerf for it. They can't afford make it weaker.

[VY Canis Melodis]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

100% everything should be balanced around CHIMPS, no MK required.

Everything else is a novelty mode, CHIMPS is the core challenge the game is built around.

bizarre take

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by VY Canis Melodis:

Originally posted by Kunovega:

100% everything should be balanced around CHIMPS, no MK required.

Everything else is a novelty mode, CHIMPS is the core challenge the game is built around.

bizarre take

How so? It's the original high end challenge the game came with. It tests every track to level 100 and with no special powers or monkey knowledge. If all tracks can be beaten with only the vanilla monkeys, that's the core challenge that all monkeys are balanced around.

Literally everything else you can unlock from monkey knowledge or special powers or double cash is just making the game easier, but then can only be used in challenges that aren't as hard as CHIMPS.

This makes every other mode of the game a novelty, something added for fun or variety but none of them being the core challenge of the game. All of your unlocks make everything else easier, but not CHIMPS.

All monkeys are balanced around what they can do in CHIMPS with no bonuses and no extra cash, it's the purest test for comparison of a tower.

Once you understand CHIMPS, every other option in the game is just for fun and is vastly easier with all the extra bonuses you can use there.

You aren't very far into the game if you think that's bizarre. It's how the game has evolved since day one.

[Ninja Zyborg]

Originally posted by VY Canis Melodis:

Originally posted by Kunovega:

100% everything should be balanced around CHIMPS, no MK required.

Everything else is a novelty mode, CHIMPS is the core challenge the game is built around.

bizarre take

I think it's a perfectly reasonable take.