Elite Dreadbloon Needs some Re-Adjustment

[matrixDoppelgänger]

Typing from recent experience from the Late September's attempt, long story short, I had three paragons firing at it, with all the farms to facilitate it. Used a whole bunch of Insta-Monkeys, Farmers, and Cash Drops, even. Hell, didn't even try investing in anything that didn't lead directly to a paragon, since that's the only way to damage the boss in any meaningful way post Tier 3.

I wasn't able to get past the part of the health bar involving Magic Immunity, and that was after I chipped away at a ceramic shell that could somehow resist my other two non-immune paragons to the point where they might as well not be there. Personally, if it resists towers that aren't targeted by it's cycling immunizes, then it really, really shouldn't scale to the point where Paragons might as well not do anything.

I'll admit to saltiness in this case, but I'm fairly confident I have every right to be. I was able to get past Elite Tier 4 after all, so it's not like I don't know what I'm doing.

[rin]

krill issue

[snaketeeth01]

So you can beat T4 elite, but not T5?

Understandable as the HP jump from T4 to 5 is quite significant.
The expectation being that by round 100 you should be set up enough to be able to set up a highly destructive setup to handle T5.

You say Paragons. Which paragons and do you take care to level them up?
I appreciate boomerang Paragon as being very strong, even though many players do not agree.
This is a powerful first paragon to get. One of the cheapest to get.
Strong enough to help you beat T3 and 4.

Dreadbloon is my favourite boss to play against actually. I find it interesting that you have to build a versatile army, and this can be interrupted by selective tower bans within the boss.

Generally, T1 elite is beaten with ninja bomb and 5 040 bombs within a village and an alch.
Sell all and continue to bloon trap farm.

T2 beaten with T5 druid with druid village alch support.
Add ninja bomb to help tear it down.
3 240 bombs, use ability in magic immune portion.
Sell and continue to trap farm.

At some point you should also get 1 to 2 104 alch near front of the spawn set to strong so they will eat up lead bloons and turn rubber to gold.
Give them camo detect before 59 to take advantage of lead camo wave.

Turn auto off so when 59 is finished, we now build for T3.
Set up T5 thorn druid within reach of both a T5 monkey village and MIB. This alone will take care of all MOAB and bloon spawns up to and including 99, regardless of what other defense you put around it.
Now we can simply focus on farm + boss.

For T3.
Avatar druid within MIB + alch.
042 boomerang +205 tack zone
Ninja bomb is no longer relavant as HP is getting higher.

Sell all and hard farm. Focus on Monkey village and T4 farms at this point. Sell your engineer, we are no longer bloon trap farming. We are now farming via Druid + MV for an enhanced passive income which doubles as a global defense against all unit types.

For T4 we need a little more oomph.
Pick a primary paragon. I prefer boomerang over dart if available. Either will work.
Within the 80s, setup towers near front of track to cannibilize pops.
502, 025 dart or 205, 052, 502 boomerangs.
By 90 ish, setup first paragon and go to second.

Give boomerang 16+ 042 into the paragon.
Give dart 33+ 030 dart into paragon. Any you can afford into 040 will just make the paragon stronger.

By 99, setup second paragon.
Ninja is good, set to strong. Feed it 30+ 042 ninja.
Else engineer is also good.
Feed it 25+ 204 engineers

Rely again on Avatar setup under MIB + alch. This with paragon gives you a nice solid hit.
If you want some added defense, these are not needed for T4 but help in T5.
Get in a 250 glue to add global debuff.
Cripple sniper set to strong for debuff.
Depending on map and what you can afford. Top path ice for debuff.
Adding in T4-T5 on top of MIB will give you global attack speed boost. This should not be necessary, but helps if you feel you struggle or are not so confident in your build.
You should also have at least a couple aces set up now for this boss to farm pops for your last paragon.
502 and 205 under MIB.
These aces will also help you with the natural wave spawns of 100+ alongside druid to contain everything.

T5 druid, 2 paragons, + @ aces ensures that you will not leak up to and including 119.
Covered.
Turn off auto again and setup for T5.

Ace paragon being the most expensive, but also most powerful paragon.
The bomb ability used deals millions of damage and will become your primary damage source against T5 as well as in the end become your top pop with easily over 30 million pops.
Feed it as many ace as you can for paragon and make sure you re position bomb ability as needed.
Activate glue nonstop. Rely on your 3 paragon, but let's add in some powerful support.

Position supermonkey alone. Surround with 002 village, 500 bomb, 502 sniper 023 sniper, 005 engineer, 005 ninja .
Consume into sun god.
Give sun god MIB + perma alch.
Within this reach.
502 + 205 heli
502 + 205 Ace
Cripple Moab sniper
Fit in any other 320 Super monkey you can in this area.

With 3 paragon. All debuffs available. All speed boosts available.
Use of abilities.
Sun god.
T5 is not a problem.
You should also have at minimum 3 engineer anyway, with 1 being T5.
These buffs used on farms throughout is how you are farming so hard.
When you reach T5 bosses you now have these engineer buffs to target your Heli for some added output.
When Miltary immune do not boost your helis, boost a super monkey.
Pay attention to what you are boosting, make use of that help.

Depending what you can afford, put in any other relevant T5s that are available to you.
520 engineer
105 master bomber ninja
205 ED sniper
250 bomb shooter
520 + 250 Dartling gunner

If you as you say "know what you are doing". You should be able to get yourself a solid enough eco start and rely on trap for long enough to get yourself from tier to tier of the boss.
If normal boss is no problem. Great.
Just understand that you now have to do the same build, with more.
The difference between normal and elite is not very difficult to adjust to for the first 3 tiers.
Tier 4 is notably more difficult to where it is necessary to have a paragon.
T5 often requires at minimum Ace Paragon plus heavy support.
Normal boss can be handled with druid and SM alone. Save for a few towers required around that.
Elite is more dynamic and requires a versatile build.
Avatar druid does pretty well for first 3 tiers still, but he needs help.
T4 and 5 requires paragons plus a core of buff and debuff.
It is easy to forget about adding in 250 glue gunner. But do so, and give it a bot if you need to to keep the cast going.
Simply put when you see how much damage Ace paragon bomb run does you can easily see why that is your main source of damage.

Most likely against this boss we will always ignore Buccaneer paragon. That is more useful against bloonarius for example.
You could go for a wizard paragon. But why? I do not find it to be all that impressive.
I actually find ninja to be easier to get and more powerful.
With the built in shuriken and moab bomb, I find this to be more of a support to get from 100-120 than wizard. If I have T5 vine druid clearing all bloon spawns, I don't need a wizard to kill bloons. I need a ninja or something else to pop to moab.
Engineer is a fine paragon. Again not something I consider to be amazing. But it is a paragon that will help deal large damage through the magic immune stage.

Personally I am okay with relying on a primary paragon to get me through T4 magic immune stage, and a Magic paragon to get through T4 primary immune stage.
These aspects covering each other will carry you until ace paragon.
Then work in tandem to carry you through military immune of T5 in conjunction with all other supports.

Use advanced farming tactics.
1 farm 000 MV to start. Build up an expansive area around that. Get your engis.
Once you are at the point of making T4 farms we will then sell, rebuild and consume again to create a stronger MV. This is now your new engineer target.
Note that, if you use engineer buff on a village it expands the reach of said village.
As does placing a village beside it.
So pretty much if you have your MIB + Druid + MV + engineer buff on MV, you have the maximum reach potential of MV for you to reach as many farms as possible.
Get up to 520 within MV and target with Perma engineer buff up to 10 stacks.
Place 025 farm beside this and your MV. Keep it nice and tight then expand out 420 farm around the MV as you can then around the map.
Keep engineer buffs going. 2-3 engineers is good.

[snaketeeth01]

If you are given the option of Geraldo, take it. This is the best hero V bosses.
Not even for trophy. That can be used to help jump eco in mid game.
Mostly that if you have Geraldo you will innately have Druid surrounded by farms with this build. But now we can justify going snipers which I otherwise would not.
Get a nice stack of snipers within cracks of farms around MV.
Put a bot to autocast the T5, this will autocast all other snipers along with it in one swoop.
Now when we spend 2k on rejuvination potion.
We immediately gain +3k from the T5 for net 1k, plus net gain of all other snipers.
Knowing this is available, but only in late game.
I actually invest money into levelling Geraldo faster than normal in the early stages so we can reach relevant items earlier.
This is fine, as we now get faster access to fireballs.
At any time you can get yourself up to and including 80 just by having 4+ fireballs active at all times plus any moderate defense. This lets you run lighter on towers, and harder on farms.
This also gives us access to stinky bananas faster.
This feeding this feeding that, eventually means sooner snipers, sooner rejuv.
Oh. Also dependant on how many farms are near your T5 druid. You are likely to get 1500+ banana per cast as well. Nice.
Do not be shy about adding in more druids in farm heavy areas if it makes sense for you to. They do have potential to be a viable income source alongside rejuv potion.
The defense they grant of double vine grab is pretty irrelvant as you already have T5 druid killing all bloon pops.
So you are spending 5k banana to create 1k banana per cast.
Instant resetting cast per rejuv use.
How early can you build the druids to get more casts in? You only need 5 casts before being net gain. This is helpful when you do not have a tower limit.
Top off with energizer for CD of snipers and druids, as well as bomb shooter, glue and any other helpful skills you are using to get through T4 and T5.

It is kind of silly you say you know what you are doing when you cannot beat T5.
You almost know what you are doing.
You know enough to beat T4.

Maybe in here you have found a couple useful tips that can push you over the edge of completing T5.
Mostly it is aiming for Ace paragon to get you through T5.
Knowing that buidling a T5 druid by the 70s will carry you to 100.
You could possibly learn a bit more about paragons, that could matter.
Knowing which paragons you are going into, and being able to feed pops before hand.
Having a strong farm game so you can feed high level towers to the paragon.
Perhaps you need higher level paragons. Are you just making level 10s right now? Go for 30s.
Appreciate true sun god. It is not exactly a tower I like, don't know why. But it is undeniable powerful.
Thekey thing I had to learn was that you need to spend 50k on each of the 4 tower classes to get the max of its potential. I think I listed the proper tower sacrifce.
I know top path bomb is over 50k. Giving village and engineer is over 50k. I listed sniper combo, but you can do top path heli.
Making a powerful sun god with MIB and alch is an absolute popping powerhouse.
This gives you a nice large AOE reach of built in discounts.
Now when you place MIB and 102 farm, you can now get up the next few SM to 320 for much cheaper than natural allowing you to get more SM in total.
These within reach of sun god + MIB +alch are fully buffed to their max potential firing a projectile that shoots 3 spread projectiles per round.
Given the size of bosses, we are hitting with multiple projectiles per round fired making them highly efficient at landing the damage they throw.
When facing T5 boss. And given that you have already installed paragons and all relevant T5 towers. What else are you even going to build that has any effect?
Bombs, ninja bombs, snipers? They might deal some damage for the several k cost.
But with the sun god build we can invest a rough 25k cost per sun avatar to get a technical T3, which is buffed and behaving as powerful as a T5 of any other class.

Ask the question which does more in a T5 boss?
A sun avatar in the above ideal conditions, or a T5 bomb under best conditions?
My intuition tells me I am actually getting more out of the avatar for less cost. And I am not limited in how many avatar I can get where any other T5 tower not only costs more but you are limited to 1 of per.
Again, my argument is that you have already built any other useful T5 tower so what else are you gonna do with your cash?
I say spend it on sun god and avatar build.
The only thing this is weak against is 1 out of 4 immunises. Fair.
We have ace and primary paragon and glue anyway so GG.

You will often see spike tower banned against Dreadbloon. Frankly that tower just absolutely breaks it. All you need to do with that is spam 240 tacks and laugh everytime you cast ability. Pair with ninja bomb, glue, ice debuff. it's LOL powerful.
At least in banning spike you have to try. Otherwise you would just carry a 240 spike with a 250 heli and not really have to do much.

I appreciate this boss for being relatively difficult. Forcing versatility. Promoting use of paragons which otherwise have no use in the game really. They are meant for bosses.
If anything you need to learn how to build and handle things when and if ace paragon is ever limited.
Then you will want a nice strong dart paragon for T3 and get yourself a massive eco build going so you can prep hard for late game.

Elite bosses do make use of my advanced tactics. Multi villages. Engineers and other advanced eco tactics.
You can always give yourself a bit of a shortcut an help in early game as well. No judgement.
Even though the boss can be beat without any instas or a boss.
You can always drop a few cash crates on wave 1 and install farms immediately.
Even drop in an instant farm or 2, when else are you gonna use em?
What's it matter. If it helps you build everything faster and easier you will get the badge and trophies. Congrats.
You get the same reward as anybody who did not use cash crates. So who cares?
Throw yourself a few cash crates to start yourself as you learn how to take on elite bosses.

I was not so great at them when i started out. But I did my research and did the practice.
You can also very easily find guide videos on youtube to find step by step boss guides.
Watching a few of these will help teach you a working strategy to adopt for yourself.
Finding out what works and then internalise why it works and why that choice over any other option. The simpler your tower formation is, the more you can rely on hard farming for late game.
Really you only have to beat round 120 + 5 bosses.
T5 druid alone beats up to round 99.
By then you have an ace or 2 and some paragons.
That is well more than enough to get through to 120.
I am pretty sure druid and 205 ace will carry majority of the pops required to reach 120.
Building all that we do around it like ice towers and glue just makes it a breeze. The only threat of focusing on having enough damage and versatility to handle the different phases of the boss.
If another boss where you might go for Avatar formation alone to beat T3.
This boss will not allow that, you have to have something valid around that.

This was a fairly easy map to finish off. Achieve the elite badge yesterday without issue.
I think your issue is lack of understanding paragons.
My thinking is that you are not farming hard enough, not feeding them enough towers.
Then you are forgetting to add any buff/debuff support in your build.

The regular game modes are not difficult enough to force you to train advanced tactics all that much.
Pretty sure I can do impoppable in my sleep.
The only way you can learn to beat bosses. Is by going out and beating the bosses.
Ya just do it.
Then you know how to do it.
When bosses come around again the next time.
You will know what to do because you've done it before.

Once you beat an elite version of a boss a few times you realise why we continually need new maps and new bosses to deal with.
Whatever the boss is you develop a working build order than only changes around limitations.
The reason I like this boss most is because I feel like the devs have the ability to force you into a new build entirely simply by banning a couple select towers.
What if you didn't have access to druid?
I would be looking to bombs and aces myself.
I might think about a necro wizard. And I would for sure have a ninja paragon to cover popping power. Paired with a dart paragon, we are fine.
By having such a dynamic build you can function with 1 piece of the machine missing and sub in harder in another aspect.
To get up to and beating round 120 really only takes like 6 towers anyway.
ROF, Druid, Ice, Ace, glue done. Everything else is there just for the boss.

Give yourself a headstart with some cash crates and farm instas. Give the elite another run.
Tune up your paragons.
Go for Dart, ninja, to ace.
Bloon trap farm up to druid farm.
Practice some new tactics, try something you have not done before because what you've done and know does not work by your own admission.
You have to do something new.
Find something in here you have not used and apply it.

Put your engineer at the middle part of the loop, bottom portion.
As soon as it is 013, you will not leak bloons.
Once it has trap, place it as high as possible at the overlap. This will consume all.
All that is missing is camo protection. Put in 024 dart beside the engineer and set prio to camo.
This will hold you up to first boss.
After which we are now onto double village and farm anyway. Give engineer 120 village placed within bottom portion of left circle. Later where engineer sits druid will go.
For now place other discount village to the right of engi+dart. Start your farms in this area.
Sell the dart.
This now lets engineer consume camo bloons, and we can also now place our 104 alch in the left loop as well within camo detection to turn all rubber to gold while consuming leads before they entire the trap.
This, with a 021 wizard placed bottom left of the engineer will cover you of everything up to and including 59.
Off 3 defending towers, 2 village rest is farming.
After we beat T2 boss. We have farmed enough capital to replace the engineer with a 051 Druid with a 105 village right beside it.
Sell the wizard.
Sell the alch.
Druid alone with MIB will carry you to 99. Rest is farming + engineer.
Whatever paragon you are getting for T3, farm pops now at front of track.
Beat T3.
Whatever paragon you are getting for T4, build now at front of track.
Beat T4.
Install 2 aces under MIB. Before round 119 finish ace, install Sungod + avatars, install relevant T5s, ensure you possess full round of buffs and debuffs.

Once you actually learn how simple this game is. You will be amazed at how shockingly terrible the average player is in social games.
It still amazes me that a franchise this old. For BTD6 being out as long as it has. Just how bad most players are at this game.
It's simply a matter of ignorance. You either know what you are doing or you don't. There is no gray.
Most do not.
You admit, you are ignorant how to beat T5 elite.
That doesn't say anything bad about you. You just need to learn, then you know.
A person can learn, that's okay. Find information, use these tactics, use videos.
Once you learn the method. You too will be amazed at just how many people are unaware of basics.

If you want a faster engineer trap. Try my way.
Make 000 farm.
000 engineer.
000 farm
010 engineer to 013
once holding 2k banana, sell both farm build trap.
The basic thought process with a farm is.
"it just costs me 1400. it makes say 100 a round. it takes 14 rounds to pay for itself.".
This is just wrong.
First farm costs 1360, sells for 1k.
This means as soon as the farm has produced 360 banana, it is within profit once sold.
What happens is by the time we get to a 013 engineer and 2k in hand, both farms have produced more than the difference between purchase and sell value meaning they have produced net gain in that duration while pocketing the money away.
This is faster and more secure way to bloon trap, while covering lead.
By installing first farm early, we get engi up for 420.
Get to pin, which stops all leaks before round 20.
Get to double gun which stops everything before 30.
Sell our double farm and have trap installed as wave 28 is coming out, so it does not matter that we have nothing on board to break lead. We simply consume this round, then re place trap.
The only thing engineer cannot handle before 40 is camo. Notably the next round being 33. Easily handled by even a 023 dart.
Allowing you to get up next 000 farm, 102 village.
Secore more camo detection before 40. upgrade the dart. And or, give engineer 1-2 village. Once you have the village, sell your dart. Even if you want to do one then the other. Use the dart sale to finish village faster and keep on the farming.

When playing impop with this, you only need a 023 heli locked in placed to hold and destroy all MOAB up to and including 80. And you only need 1 ROF with camo to destroy all bloons up to and including 80. it's 3 towers and a village to get to 80.
If you wanna be fancy with it, add in 023 glue.
To beat 100, you only need a "win condition".
Very easily funded by trap.
In fact the easiest being go hard eco into 051 druid, into 015 engineer. This destroys and consumes literally everything before it even enters the map.
You are now getting fed eco from both druid and trap.
The only thing that remains is reduce clear speed and breaking the BAD.
Upgrade your heli to 015. Done.
Don't like that? Go for druid + 259 spike, done.
Don't like that? Go for a 205 ace with MIB, done.
Don't like that? Put a 420 village with a 420 ice, 205 tack, 420 ROF in that order.
Done.
Ice debuffs, tack breaks moab, fire breaks bloons.
Add in 130 alch set to strong to improve clear speed in round 70+
It's very common and easy to have a 2 tower win condition set up by mid 70s and AFK til round 100 is complete.
Once you figure out you can beat round 100 using only 4-6 towers. How much harder is a boss?
I feel like what we build to reach 100 is pretty much enough to beat 120. It's not like we need much more focus on that aspect. Druid + 1 takes care of everything.
If you go for T5 trap actually, it will outperform the druid as it is "popping" 1000's worth of pops in the later rounds.
What happens is the 014 engineer up to round 80 will have 80 pops. Then when you make it a T5, by round 100 it will have more than 800k while druid has less as it's damage to MOAB class is dealt over distance or time where trap is insta clear and reset.
Guess what happens if you put T5 Druid and T5 Engineer in a boss map.. Yup. Insta clear and safe til 120.
Everything else you build is just there for the boss.
You actually no longer need ROF once you have druid.
Typically I will sell ROF on 79 and change it to a tack as I now have druid in.
Up until this point, ROF under a 420 vilage will in fact pop all bloons that reach it.
More true if you have any glue/ice in the area.
With bosses you want to avoid redundancy and stick to a clean build going as heavy as possible in eco.
You only need camo dart up until you have camo engineer. You do not need both, so invest the sell value of the dart into a farm which is now production opposed to wasted value sitting on the map.
Learn how far a single engineer will get you and use that to go eco heavy.
Have T5 druid before 70. Get your T5 farm into mass T4s.

I for one think the game needs an overhaul. T5 druid is just way to easy and broken. You shouldn't get that much perma global popping power plus an income out of 1 tower. It's too good.
It's just funny that Engineer is even better, and you can reach it by relying on the protection and income of the druid.
It's a 2 tower win. Only we need to break 5 tiers of boss instead of a BAD.
That's why we get paragons.