Are paragons a waste of dev time?

[katanaofsubterfuge]

With them now making it so you can only have 3, and all paragons being insanely expensive, new paragons are just not going to have a reason to exist. My suggestion is cheaper paragons, dart monkey paragon should be the cheapest paragon, and cost 50k, but of course be massively nerfed. That or simply stop developing paragons, nobody is holding a gun to your heads and telling you that you need to develop EVERY SINGLE ONE, instead focus on more interesting gameplay features or brand new towers or even BTD7.

[katanaofsubterfuge]

I think actually all towers in the game would need to be rebalanced for paragons to make sense, and even new modes would need to be added, again the devs should probably just start making BTD7.

Dart Monkey paragon costing 50k and being super cheap makes some sense, but since you can have 2 elite crossbow masters, all the t5 paths combined are more expensive than 50k, I'd fix this by making their T5 upgrades cheaper but weaker, and I'd even try to push the paragon below 50k, and I'd also nerf paragons boss damage and buff other towers.

[Hiroko]

somewhat rambling rant warning
imo, its the cost/time/effort of all the t4's spam needed and pop score (which is FAR easier on some than others) that makes paragons uncomfortable to use. The total gold amount isn't necessarily an issue, but it takes sooooo much clicking to make a single tower in the end. Between the pop score and footprint demands for a decent degree paragon, its really suffocating in how you build them. In other words, the process is a pita. That said, of course I'm going to use them, and the paragons themselves are pretty cool. The fun of freeplay pushing is throwing your absolute everything at the game, which is where we get to the change...

The new 3-per-game limit really just feels like a direct attack on playing the game the way I want by arbitrarily and forcibly restricting me to their idea of balance in an infinite-scaling mode. I'd compare it literally on par with saying you can only build 1 T5 in a chimps game, just because. I can't even see how it could be helpful. Legitimately every single reason I think of is incredibly easy to dismiss as being completely arbitrary or ineffective. And it (the 3-per rule) does make time spent on (weaker) paragons essentially wasted time. It'll basically be the 3 best universally used, with a 4th or maybe even 5th option depending on map for freeplay, and another set of 3-4 that are good in boss fights. Smells like a setup to shift to balance via meta control, rather than a proper balance via feedback approach.

[Spookypizza]

Escrito originalmente por katanaofsubterfuge:

dart monkey paragon should be the cheapest paragon, and cost 50k, but of course be massively nerfed.

Then it would literally be as powerful as a buffed t5 and not a paragon anymore, that's stupid. There is legit no reason to reduce the price of paragons down to 50k.
and they're already working on a new tower lol

[katanaofsubterfuge]

Escrito originalmente por Spookypizza:

Escrito originalmente por katanaofsubterfuge:

dart monkey paragon should be the cheapest paragon, and cost 50k, but of course be massively nerfed.

Then it would literally be as powerful as a buffed t5 and not a paragon anymore, that's stupid. There is legit no reason to reduce the price of paragons down to 50k.
and they're already working on a new tower lol

That's the point kinda, a paragon could be a cheap T5 tower that let's you strengthen it by accumulating pops beforehand, also maybe allow them to be buffed?

[poqqers]

the way they can make this better is allow paragons to buff each other. It would be really fun tbh to find out the strongest combination of paragons. Like boomerang could help the dart paragon and boomerang would be more worth it since that specific combination of paragons is more powerful.

[Tomeo]

"and cost 50k, but of course be massively nerfed"

XD

[Spookypizza]

Escrito originalmente por katanaofsubterfuge:

Escrito originalmente por Spookypizza:

Then it would literally be as powerful as a buffed t5 and not a paragon anymore, that's stupid. There is legit no reason to reduce the price of paragons down to 50k.
and they're already working on a new tower lol

That's the point kinda, a paragon could be a cheap T5 tower that let's you strengthen it by accumulating pops beforehand, also maybe allow them to be buffed?

paragons are designed to be powerful, not cheap t5s. making it super cheap and a lot more weak would ruin the design and point of the said paragon

[katanaofsubterfuge]

Escrito originalmente por Spookypizza:

Escrito originalmente por katanaofsubterfuge:

That's the point kinda, a paragon could be a cheap T5 tower that let's you strengthen it by accumulating pops beforehand, also maybe allow them to be buffed?

paragons are designed to be powerful, not cheap t5s. making it super cheap and a lot more weak would ruin the design and point of the said paragon

Bro, freeplay is not fun, it's boring, and 3 paragons are enough for any boss, they don't even have any cool interactions with bloons besides 'big damage'. Paragons are the most pointless thing this game has ever added, we didn't need more than 3 paragons of the most iconic monkeys. The actual 'meat' of the game isn't freeplay or bosses, it's rounds 1-100, paragons just exist in this empty void of boringness, making them cheaper would fix this.

[^3Tinkles]

Escrito originalmente por katanaofsubterfuge:

Escrito originalmente por Spookypizza:

paragons are designed to be powerful, not cheap t5s. making it super cheap and a lot more weak would ruin the design and point of the said paragon

Bro, freeplay is not fun, it's boring

In your opinion.

Escrito originalmente por katanaofsubterfuge:

Escrito originalmente por Spookypizza:

paragons are designed to be powerful, not cheap t5s. making it super cheap and a lot more weak would ruin the design and point of the said paragon

hey don't even have any cool interactions with bloons besides 'big damage'.

Big numbers sometimes are 'cool' and limiting that IS dumb, no reason to low the value/worth of Paragons, nor limit them in freeplay. Limiting them in boss fights is one thing, but limiting them in Freeplay IS dumb. Guess that answers the question "will all the paragons put together be used to make a paragon VTSG".

Escrito originalmente por katanaofsubterfuge:

Escrito originalmente por Spookypizza:

paragons are designed to be powerful, not cheap t5s. making it super cheap and a lot more weak would ruin the design and point of the said paragon

paragons just exist in this empty void of boringness, making them cheaper would fix this.

You don't use VTSG every map, doesn't mean it's pointless same goes for Paragons.

[Blood]

Yes, yes they are.

[Hiroko]

Escrito originalmente por katanaofsubterfuge:

Bro, freeplay is not fun, it's boring, and 3 paragons are enough for any boss

This also feels like a completely arbitrary attack on the way I play the game.

[katanaofsubterfuge]

Escrito originalmente por Hiroko:

Escrito originalmente por katanaofsubterfuge:

Bro, freeplay is not fun, it's boring, and 3 paragons are enough for any boss

This also feels like a completely arbitrary attack on the way I play the game.

It's not arbitrary at all, freeplay rounds stop doing anything interesting after the reinforced BAD's, after that they just speed up and gain more health, so you just sit on logs with VTSG/Paragons AFK for an hour until you have to use the Batman/Ice strategy, absolutely boring an uninvolved gameplay.

[Iinweed]

I feel the cost is fine, but why limit the number of paragons? If I have the cash and want to have all of them in play, why not? Especially in single player or coop freeplay.

[Shiroe (cortana)]

yeah limit in freeplay/coop was just lame..
It would however make sense in boss mode...

[Smokey]

They are only useful against bosses so yes a big waste of dev time when the mod community already made every tower into a paragon.
Instead they should rework CT so it be more fun than tiresome.

Right now they do what epic did to RL = f... it up