Opinion: Why Glue Gunner is the best underrated tower, and why it deserves a Paragon.

[Greenpier System]

Hi, this is the first time I'm writing a post on Steam for kicks instead of as a bug report, so yay!

As a background of my BTD knowledge, I had played BTD5 until I was some ridiculously high level, and then after a while, I transferred to BTD6. I have been playing BTD6 for a long time, and now I'm focused on trying to challenge the game as well as restore my account since my old account sadly got flagged for modded client, so I had to delete it (good news is, I haven't formally started rebuilding yet, so I decided since the game was already busted, I might as well test the code a bit. I'll get the account back when I'm ready to put another few hundred hours and some money into it. :) )

Now, why am I talking here? Well, I have been thinking about this for the longest time, and now the Paragons exist, but I've never talked about it: I've always been a Glue Gunner main, and it always surprised people. I remember from all the way back in BTD5 Co-op battles, people always asked me why I cheeped out on towers and instead went with a Glue Gunner main in chat.

My response was always that it was the best tower, at least back then, and people laughed. But I still use Glue Gunner in BTD6 as my main, as well as it's specialized cousin Alchemist which I absolutely love.

So today I decided to log on and play again and test around, and I found out that while Dart Monkey, which I really didn't like before as it was entirely updated wrong from 5 to 6 (usually in my 5 builds, I'd have triple darts, but in 6 that's no longer the main path; you can have catapult [no] or super monkey club [no] or crossbow [haven't tested but read description, sounds like a no]; so I don't use Dart anymore unless I'm building something or I'm clearing out Free's from Villages) got a Paragon, since I hadn't been around to check the update, Glue Gunner did not.

I think Glue Gunner is kinda getting the short end of the stick, so I wanted to write this to vouch for it, and maybe, *maybe* Ninja Kiwi will look at this and see a Paragon be made for Glue Gunner.

So, I'm going to divide this into 4 parts from here on out. Part A, right below, will be why Glue Gunner is the best main from BTD5. Below that, Part B, will be why Glue Gunner is the best main for early BTD6 (so Easy Difficulty, Beginner Map, basically a Bloons Tower Defense 6 for Dummies-level player.) Part C will be the opposite: why Glue Gunner is the best tower for late BTD6 (so Hard/Unpoppable Difficulty, harder maps that permit placement [obviously]) while Part D, finally, will be what I envision a Paragon or any other needed changes around the Glue Gunner need to be.



So, BTD5. Glue Gunner is easily a winner here because MOAB-class weren't as dangerous as in 6 nor as upgradable. The best strat I used for Glue Gunner was to use Glue Gunner as the main while developing on the side a "MOAB-Killer," a Spike Factory (If you don't have one, then you are just asking for a spanking, doesn't matter how good you are, you need tacks to buy time if you get too brave) and Villages, and if you need money, all you need is Banks. Usually the MOAB group is a trademark mix of Snipers and Mortars. This is usually all that's really necessary, but back then, the strategy was so simple and award-winning if done properly, that while I'd play it in school (I graduated from high school in 2020, what a great year, pppptttt) I'd build other stuff and play out stories and write about them in my school Google Docs account (I was a creative and weird child.) There wasn't any need for this; a couple of times I tried to blow up my school computer for just for fun and ended up breaching the round 100 barrier and going far enough that the weakling Chromebook crashed using just the basic strategy.

The basic task of this strategy is to use the Glue Gunner to just SLOW the Bloons while it's weak and let the Snipers clean up, then use the coin to upgrade the Glue Gunner and Snipers in turn, then build up boosting villages on the Glue Gunner before the major Camo rounds (because the measly one bloon round would be mopped by the snipers, giving you more time) and mortars to nuke bloons at the front of the map and the back. Finally you put the fool-proof Spike Factory down at the back, and then you upgrade as fast as possible before the MOABs arrive. Basically what this does is that the Glue Gunner, if supplied by boosting Villages and an Intelligence Agency (usually graciously paid for by Banking Farms set in a corner) will absolutely shred through Bloon spam from how fast the solvent upgrades work with a spray side-upgrade, while the Snipers and Mortars stun and break down the MOABs into more Bloon spam. More often than not, even on harder difficulties, if this is done correctly, the Big One Mortars and Cripple Snipers aimed at the front are more than enough to process all the big bloons into garbage that can be liquefied by the Glue Gunner, with some Spike Mines and one or two Big Ones aimed at the back end, just to be safe. This usually gets me to lag-levels easily.



In BTD6, the game changes. But not by much, at least in the early game. Basically the same strategy works here except a few changes have to be made, and a few "optimizations" can be made as well due to the three path system. The main optimizations that can be made have to do with whether you want one or two Glue Gunners (because of the new MOAB path,) whether you want a more specialized Mortar mix or not, and, if you have it, whether you want a Gold Converter at the front (Alchemist: it's Glue Gunner, but way more spicy! ;) ) Essentially, the difference between the plans is that the first plan would stick more to the original and use Cripple Sniper and Maim Snipers with The Biggest One and Big One Mortars as the processor, and you'd need to unlock the Banking path and part of the Banana Research path for the Farms. However, with a bit of optimizations, you can make this work much faster: you main with two glue gunners, one forward, and one farther back outside of range (if you don't know why, basically, that brand-new feature I love where you can glue pretty much any bloon including MOABs, also came with a brand new "Glue Priority System" or GPS [had to make that joke, sorry.] Basically, each possible glue type [which is currently made up out of the levels of Super Glue or Solvent, or both if early] has a priority for if they are sprayed on top of another glue, so the best mix of abilities apply to the Bloon in question. The issue with this here is that the Bloon Solver takes lower priority to Super Glue for some reason, so Bloon Solver's AI is to not fire at any bloons that are covered by plain Super Glue. If you need to look at this directly, the image is a bit confusing, but a diagram explaining the old and new Priority System exists at https://bloons.fandom.com/wiki/Glue_Gunner_(BTD6) ) The forward one is your Bloon Solver-Hose tower, while the back one is a Super Glue-Hose. You place the Rubber-to-Gold Alchemist before the first Glue Gunner, again out of range (I don't upgrade Alchemist fully usually because the Shrinking Potion seriously needs a rework; I'd say a tackling system where you'd have to slow or stun the MOABs more and more the higher-level they are, but the last time I checked, this annihilator in a tin can just converts anything up to the Level 100 monstrosity with ease, not even a second thought, which makes the game less fun.) Then, when you make your explosive mix, instead of just Big Ones with Burny Stuff, add some Shattering Shells with Rapid Reload and ONE separate Shatter-Reload. You essentially set up 3 areas of Mortar targeting, but this time, you place the front Mortars on the track in front of the Super Glue, and the back ones in the back of the track. All this essentially destroys everything in earlier levels as long as that one Mortar left is set up, because the rapid explosions will strip Camo off most of the Bloon spam, where the Solver will deal with them even faster than in BTD5. Then any MOABs or extra bloons will either be converted by the Alchemist to coin, or stuck to a kill-post where an explosive mix of status-removal shells and high-damage shells hit constantly by the Super Glue.



But maybe you are more advanced? So, I have my typical strategy in BTD6, at least until my account got corrupted. Most of the time, the best strategy with Glue Gunner is to combine it with the Magic Class, minus Ninja and Super Monkey (because I'm a masochist and also I haven't quite figured out how to make the perfect set up for a Sun Temple yet. :P ) Druid is good with Glue Gunner because they can increase damage rate, grow lives, and snipe or knockback bloons that have escaped, depending on the path (Spirit+Hard Thorns is preferable.) Alchemist is good because again, it's Glue Gunner but *SPICY!* Usually my Alchemist loadout is Rubber-Gold with Perishing, because I don't use Darts for Berserk and the anti-Fortified and extra damage is just a nice bonus. Wizard Monkey is essentially the backup with a backup: Prince with Wall of Fire, pops most bloon sludge easily in one go all the while manufacturing roving defenses to prevent a break-through. Then just pile on the villages and spike mine factories with all the money you're converting, and watch it go. If anything doesn't get converted, it's going to be dissolved, poked, bitten, and burnt before it pops on a spike mine. The one thing this can't beat, because it requires essentially a Last Stand effort, is the Level 100 MOAB; it carries too much too far in, it's essentially instant death.



And finally, here we are at the experimental ground. I have been writing this post since 4 pm, it is now 9:30 pm, let's get this idea on the table already!

My ideal version of a Glue Gunner Paragon would be based on a new status condition for Bloons to spawn with. The main reason for this is because Paragons are the combination of all of the traits in all three trees, and while a Glue Gunner Paragon would be amazingly awesome, I still want it to have some sort of meta around it like I'm used to; Glue Gunner always had a major weakness, and I always was challenged to work with them since BTD5, and it was always rewarding since most of my losses were because of Bloon spam, not a MOAB-class, and Glue Gunner has been a trusty sidearm to get rid of this sludge. A Paragon in this state of the game would no longer have a meta: it would have the Anti-MOAB sticking power of Path 3, the dissolving power of Path 1, and the absolute deluge of glue from Path 2. It would essentially be an all-purpose kill tower, and that's not MY Glue Gunner.

So, I introduce this: Chemical Bloons. They are essentially Energy Bloons, except they don't react with chemical products and the Chemical status effect is APPLIED to the Bloon: it can be on higher level bloons, and it can be stripped. If you're wondering how it can be stripped, glad you asked.

My other old favorite tower was Ice Tower, or Ice Monkey as it's now called. Viral Frost and Deep Freeze were awesome; it was essentially if Tack Sprayer and Glue Gunner had a baby, however that would work (???) but now I barely use the tower. It just doesn't work the same, it's not as cool anymore. But Glue Gunner and Ice Tower were best friends in my Co-op battles: Ice Tower could freeze bloons in place and snap them, while Glue Gunner would pick them off. So why not bring the duo back?

Chemicals have a hard time reacting in the cold. So, theoretically, the Ice Monkey could be modified to be a stripper for Chemical-stat Bloons, so Alchemist, Glue Gunner, and other chemical based weapons will have to be assisted by Ice Monkeys acting as strippers on rounds where MOABs or bloons have Chemical stats. This would balance out the Shrinking Potion issue and a few other issues, but also it would add an element of strategy to the Glue Gunner Paragon which would otherwise be a bit easy.



Anyway, that was my giant post. I hope this makes sense, I am autistic so my words sometimes don't come out right. Also I'm in New York and I might have... done something. So my words might be a bit mixed up. But I hope this helps the team out or other people out! See you guys later!

[Ninja Zyborg]

not gonna touch most of this post except:
1: you say something about triple darts not really existing? or not being the "main path" (whatever that means). But it exists as the x3x crosspath...

2. you also compare alchemist to glue a lot, when they are entirely different. alchemist has 2 different dps paths and one cash gen path. top path gives nearby tower significant dps boosts, and middle path does burst damage on moab destruction as well as having an active ability that turns it into something similar to a super monkey.

3. I really don't like your glue gunner strategy. stinky, no good. 024 dart monkey spam > glue strats

[Ackranome]

I always thought glue gunner could use love.

[Greenpier System]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Ninja Zyborg:

not gonna touch most of this post except:
1: you say something about triple darts not really existing? or not being the "main path" (whatever that means). But it exists as the x3x crosspath...

2. you also compare alchemist to glue a lot, when they are entirely different. alchemist has 2 different dps paths and one cash gen path. top path gives nearby tower significant dps boosts, and middle path does burst damage on moab destruction as well as having an active ability that turns it into something similar to a super monkey.

3. I really don't like your glue gunner strategy. stinky, no good. 024 dart monkey spam > glue strats

Ok, I'm about to log off for the night, but I am going to respond to this and Ackranome first.

1. Triple Darts do exist, yes, but they aren't an endpath. I try to upgrade as much as I can without breaking balance because low dps, even for a second, can let a lot of spam through and kill you. The original Triple Darts were nice because you could put sharp darts on them and the works so they essentially shot a shotgun effect every few seconds. The new ones, they aren't powerful enough to tackle crap. So yes they exist, but they exist as a poor recreation rather than the originals.

2. The reason I compare Alchemist to Glue is because it's basic attack is the same as the Glue Gunner. Also, in case you hadn't noticed, in the Magic Only gamemode, each Magic tower replaces-sorta one usual main tower: Druid, for example, can take on Sniper's role, which Sniper is in pretty much anyone's toolbox. Alchemist's closest relative in the game IS Glue Gunner; it hits with an "acid" attack that's the only one other than the corrosive glue attack in the game. The reason why it's "spicy" is because while Glue Gunner only works in matters of poppage and slowing, Alchemist essentially "experiments" with the chemicals and either gives it to other towers to boost them or uses it to transform bloons into harmless gold. I didn't compare them literally, I just put them side by side with what I know.

3. That is your opinion. I play with Glue Gunner and I win and I can sleep at night. As long as you can, that is your prerogative.

As for Ackranome, yeah, I thought it was about time. Glue Gunner needs a bit of love before everyone forgets about it. :(

[Shiroe (cortana)]

well, glue glunner slows bloons down, alchemist does not!
For certain maps on chimps or even non chimps and certain challenges you kinda require a glue gunner too

[H0LABANANA]

What even, didn't they already confirm all towers will get a paragon? Anyways, were this BMC, I would totally agree, glue is so good there! But in BTD6, really only moab glue is ever used (and MAYBE gluestorm).

Oh yeah, I forgot to say. I really like the idea of glue gunners, it's just that they get overshadowed in BTD6 so they really aren't that good here, unfortunately.

[twoxsp]

Master thesis on the Bloons tower defense glue gunner

[Sampo888]

Well. I think they will slowly release paragons for pretty much all towers. Glue gunners are nice yes. Hard to consider them best when they can't see camo bloons without the help of other towers.

[ZT Xperimentor]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Sampo888:

Well. I think they will slowly release paragons for pretty much all towers. Glue gunners are nice yes. Hard to consider them best when they can't see camo bloons without the help of other towers.

Not to mention they're yet another tower that's basically useless against DDTs & MADs except for its activated ability. I'm just hoping their paragon makes the other paths worth keeping for late game.

[Blueybeak]

glue gunner is bad, useless in late game, monkey ace better + ratio

[Ninja Zyborg]

Ursprungligen skrivet av RainbowstruckLE:

1. Triple Darts do exist, yes, but they aren't an endpath. I try to upgrade as much as I can without breaking balance because low dps, even for a second, can let a lot of spam through and kill you. The original Triple Darts were nice because you could put sharp darts on them and the works so they essentially shot a shotgun effect every few seconds. The new ones, they aren't powerful enough to tackle crap. So yes they exist, but they exist as a poor recreation rather than the originals.

2. The reason I compare Alchemist to Glue is because it's basic attack is the same as the Glue Gunner. Also, in case you hadn't noticed, in the Magic Only gamemode, each Magic tower replaces-sorta one usual main tower: Druid, for example, can take on Sniper's role, which Sniper is in pretty much anyone's toolbox. Alchemist's closest relative in the game IS Glue Gunner; it hits with an "acid" attack that's the only one other than the corrosive glue attack in the game. The reason why it's "spicy" is because while Glue Gunner only works in matters of poppage and slowing, Alchemist essentially "experiments" with the chemicals and either gives it to other towers to boost them or uses it to transform bloons into harmless gold. I didn't compare them literally, I just put them side by side with what I know.

not sure what your issue is with triple darts, it's literally just as powerful as it was in the other game.

and just like what that other guy said, glue slows. alc doesn't.

[Crustacean]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Blueybeak:

glue gunner is bad, useless in late game, monkey ace better + ratio

if its multiplayer late game is a 2 frames a second disconnect and reconnect hellscape so if your still playing past round 100 thats your problem if glue gun is no longer viable. if your playing sp the money you make is enough it doesnt matter if you had bought a glue gunner or not.

[Blueybeak]

Ursprungligen skrivet av InvadeGames:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Blueybeak:

glue gunner is bad, useless in late game, monkey ace better + ratio

if its multiplayer late game is a 2 frames a second disconnect and reconnect hellscape so if your still playing past round 100 thats your problem if glue gun is no longer viable. if your playing sp the money you make is enough it doesnt matter if you had bought a glue gunner or not.

if you're in anything above an intermediate map on chimps, using glue gunner for dps like this guy seems to be doing is completely useless, he said himself his method doesn't beat r100
moab glue is good, but nothing more than that, super glue tends to be a huge waste of money if you're actually playing a hard map

seriously though wtf is this dude's strategy, I didn't read this entire post, but I can't understand why anyone would want to use druid, sniper, glue, mortar, and wizard (+ spac) as their main dps
it's like he beat logs chimps once and it was enough to convince him that the towers he used are godlike
oh well, let him enjoy the game however he wants... he won't get far anyways

[Pandamournia]

tbh, as someone who uses spike factory, alchemist, glue gunner, and ice monkey to get to round 160,
yes pls, more paragons :D

[Crustacean]

i dont see much of a point of going much passed 100-120 because then its just a seizure on the screen and your just sitting there as these 2-3-4-5 min plus rounds to tick by and you dont gain anything from it unless its some particular challenge your trying to accomplish. i guess if all you care about is having an hour long game to say you hit round 160 again then sure, certain towers are pointless and thats alot more than just glue gunner.

[Luminy]

People who think glue is good in BTD6: basically everyone
People who think glue is good in BTD5: brain damaged