Bloons TD 6

Bloons TD 6

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DUKAPb May 3, 2021 @ 10:59am
"2x money" is not avaliable in Chimps mode?
"2x money" is not avaliable in last game mode (Chimps mode) ?
Originally posted by Nightbringer:
My example about "vegan" was chosen specifically, because it has to oblige a certain standard which is higher than of vegetarian. I'm not talking about people being stupid and not knowing definition of words. I'm saying that if on a box it is written "vegan", a consumer which is vegan is buying this product thinking that there are no products which comes from animals. However, this product does contain honey and eggs inside of it. This would make it not a vegan product, but a vegetarian one. A producer might argue that they only meant that vegan part only refers to not killing any animals or only part of a product itself. However, that would not change the fact that label "vegan" on top of a box would be misleading to a consumer even if there is somewhere on a box written in small print an explanation what is vegan in that product and what is not.

A good example at how labelling is done was on some Fanta cans. "Now with 30% sugar than rest soda drinks". It has "*" sign next to it and explanation where it is easy to spot which explains that it is compared to X drinks at Y studies.

We can look at this from a different angle. Lets say that a product pretends to be healthy. It has a green packaging, key words everywhere like healthy, take care of yourself, less additives, less sugar. However, in reality it is no more healthy than other junk food and company refers only to some other alternative product which they made, but never released. That would also be considered as fake advertising.

The closest example I can think off is when company lies by omission. In our example, company says that 2x money is now and forever yours. They make a promise that I will be able to use that 2x money forever. Description in store is either very vague or very straightforward. "2x money forever" means exactly "2x money forever". Its description implies that it is a cheat code for any game mode which can be turned off and on.
This is however not a case and you expect me to have knowledge before hand before making a purchase. I believe that it is unreasonable assumption to make as we do not have such standards for grocery stores or in most other retail places.

Furthermore, as a new player, I still did not encountered this new mode nor this game screams at me "hardcore". At first glance it looks like a casual, easy game. So, it is not hard to imagine how someone could think that game does not really cares too much about its internal balance and would just give you 2x money everywhere.

Furthermore, I had explained how it is impossible to tell how much it is reasonable to allow player to use cheat code before asking a refund. There is no way of telling if player knows about chimp mode, how often it used and what its expectations were. He could had used it for a long time before encountering an issue. Unconditional refund is the best thing they can do at this point if they do not want to change the labelling on a purchase.

I also want to remind you that "it is being difficult to translate to other languages" is a moot point. Every time game is updated with any new content, they need to write that text in all the new languages anyways. It is literally just copy pasting 1 line of text between same document to different page sheets.
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Showing 31-45 of 105 comments
Neit May 3, 2021 @ 1:55pm 
Originally posted by DUKAPb:
Originally posted by Neit:
I don't see the word casual there.
I do not see word - donate will not work.

What mean "income"? You have not tower "Banana`s farm". So developer wrote about banana`s farm. Not about DONATE.
This will sound condescending, even though it's not the intention, so sorry for that.
The description is not perfect, for the sole reason, that it would ruin the acronym for the mode. You know, CHIMPS, as chimp is a type of monkey, it's sort of a joke thing?

The description is sort of vague, but still, "income" can mean many things, it's safe to assume that this includes Double Cash.

What's also missing there is "Instant Monkeys", yet it's safe to assume that those are not allowed either (which is reinforced by the disabled power button on the right).

If that's not enough of a hint, Double Cash is basically one of the "Powers" and I even think that this is the part that actually makes it disabled.

Just man up, you made a mistake, it happens, even to the best, learn a lesson from it and move on.
Originally posted by DUKAPb:
Originally posted by A Ballad from Nocturne:
It's definitely not needed, the mode is really hard, sure, but that's the point. There literally is no reason to play Chimps aside of it being the most difficult mode. Double cash would go against the purpose of Chimps mode.
Its need to play for some Steam achievements.

The point of those achievements, though, is that they are hard to earn. It would be more logical to say that it is a bit odd that you get achievements even with 2x cash in effect, but saying that it should be a thing in CHIMPS because of steam achievements? Seems odd to me.
DUKAPb May 3, 2021 @ 2:10pm 
Originally posted by Neit:
This will sound condescending, even though it's not the intention, so sorry for that.
The description is not perfect, for the sole reason, that it would ruin the acronym for the mode. You know, CHIMPS, as chimp is a type of monkey, it's sort of a joke thing?

The description is sort of vague, but still, "income" can mean many things, it's safe to assume that this includes Double Cash.

What's also missing there is "Instant Monkeys", yet it's safe to assume that those are not allowed either (which is reinforced by the disabled power button on the right).

If that's not enough of a hint, Double Cash is basically one of the "Powers" and I even think that this is the part that actually makes it disabled.

Just man up, you made a mistake, it happens, even to the best, learn a lesson from it and move on.
Exactly, the description is not perfect. I did not make mistakes - I am not agreed with it. A mistake would be if it was directly written before purchase.

Example. You bought the game but no any info before purchase that you need high end pc for runing. You spend much money but can`t run the game. Why didn't the developer take care of it? Its his mistake.

I have played Bloons 5 before. In that game it was free option for all modes. Why should I doubt that this option is not suitable for everyone in Bloons 6 if no correct info?
Last edited by DUKAPb; May 3, 2021 @ 2:11pm
Originally posted by A Ballad from Nocturne:
Originally posted by DUKAPb:
Its need to play for some Steam achievements.

The point of those achievements, though, is that they are hard to earn. It would be more logical to say that it is a bit odd that you get achievements even with 2x cash in effect, but saying that it should be a thing in CHIMPS because of steam achievements? Seems odd to me.


Originally posted by DUKAPb:
Originally posted by Neit:
This will sound condescending, even though it's not the intention, so sorry for that.
The description is not perfect, for the sole reason, that it would ruin the acronym for the mode. You know, CHIMPS, as chimp is a type of monkey, it's sort of a joke thing?

The description is sort of vague, but still, "income" can mean many things, it's safe to assume that this includes Double Cash.

What's also missing there is "Instant Monkeys", yet it's safe to assume that those are not allowed either (which is reinforced by the disabled power button on the right).

If that's not enough of a hint, Double Cash is basically one of the "Powers" and I even think that this is the part that actually makes it disabled.

Just man up, you made a mistake, it happens, even to the best, learn a lesson from it and move on.
Exactly, the description is not perfect. I did not make mistakes - I am not agreed with it. A mistake would be if it was directly written before purchase.

I have played Bloons 5 before. In that game it was free option for all modes. Why should I doubt that this option is not suitable for everyone in Bloons 6 if no correct info?

The mistake is not making sure to know what exactly you're buying, no matter if part of what lead to that mistake is somewhat vague information.
The info is not "not correct" but just not very detailed, because the Devs assume most people understand how CHIMPS works based on the symbols given & the fact that mostly everyone seems to agree 2x cash is basically a cheat you can pay for. Why would the build-in cheat (that is not needed at all) work in the mode that is supposed to be the ultimate challenge?

BTD 6 is not BTD 5, the fact 2x cash does not exist as a free-to-toggle thing could have made you question if it is supposed to be the exact same function and not more like an "easier" toggle you can switch on for the modes that are not literally centered around beating them with nothing but the base-kit (towers & heroes w/o any additional effects (MK) or "outside" boosts (Power-Ups).

TrueEvil May 3, 2021 @ 2:44pm 
Although I think he's a little too aggressive on the issue, I think OP's in the right to be upset.

He bought it. He should be able to use it. It doesn't matter that it's the hardest mode, the "true test of skill". It doesn't say anywhere that double cash is disabled. For CHIMPS, the closest two restrictions are "Powers" and "Income". Double cash is not included as a power and personally it seems to me that "Income" means towers like banana farm and abilities like Supply Drop. I would consider double cash to be a multiplier regardless of gamemode, thus not income. I can certainly see how it COULD be considered income, but it's still vague enough to require clarification.

Did OP make a questionable purchase? Maybe. Are NK a bunch of scammers? Absolutely not. But OP has a point that the restriction on double cash is poorly communicated and could easily be added to the purchase page as a disclaimer. Who cares if it would make Chimps was easier. It's a singleplayer game that any fool could just look up guides on to Black Border every map. At least this way he'd be having fun.

To OP: NK is not scamming you. This is a miscommunication, nothing more. You should email them with your concerns.
Last edited by TrueEvil; May 3, 2021 @ 2:45pm
Ryōta Kise May 3, 2021 @ 2:52pm 
bro go on youtube if its that deep
Originally posted by eV:
Although I think he's a little too aggressive on the issue, I think OP's in the right to be upset.

He bought it. He should be able to use it. It doesn't matter that it's the hardest mode, the "true test of skill". It doesn't say anywhere that double cash is disabled. For CHIMPS, the closest two restrictions are "Powers" and "Income". Double cash is not included as a power and personally it seems to me that "Income" means towers like banana farm and abilities like Supply Drop. I would consider double cash to be a multiplier regardless of gamemode, thus not income. I can certainly see how it COULD be considered income, but it's still vague enough to require clarification.

Did OP make a questionable purchase? Maybe. Are NK a bunch of scammers? Absolutely not. But OP has a point that the restriction on double cash is poorly communicated and could easily be added to the purchase page as a disclaimer. Who cares if it would make Chimps was easier. It's a singleplayer game that any fool could just look up guides on to Black Border every map. At least this way he'd be having fun.

To OP: NK is not scamming you. This is a miscommunication, nothing more. You should email them with your concerns.

I think you are missing the point, the whole purpose of Chimps is to be as hard as possible, so the mode takes away everything that would make beating it easier. It isn't unreasonable to say that it could be made more clear, sure, but the argument is not "people musn't cheat", it just makes no sense from a design standpoint to exclude 2x cash from the things that are disabled there. There is no reason to play CHIMPS except for the challenge (and if someone hunts them the achievements ofc) but both are arguments to not have 2x cash.
Following your logic what speaks against the ability to add some way that lets people use any monkey in "only magic monkeys" mode? Of course one could say "because people should be able to decide for themselves how they want to play their game" - which is fair - but it literally would be redundant because those modes already exist.
Same goes for CHIMPS, disable MK and quit after the 1st damage to your health in any other mode that goes to wave 100, also do not use power-ups or insta-monkeys and do not build banana farms (etc.) but have 2x cash.
DUKAPb May 3, 2021 @ 2:57pm 
eV, big thx for your support.

A mutual friend will show this topic to developer. I hope that he will answer. Or I need to email them, yes.

TrueEvil May 3, 2021 @ 3:03pm 
Originally posted by DUKAPb:
eV, big thx for your support.

A mutual friend will show this topic to developer. I hope that he will answer. Or I need to email them, yes.
It seems rare that the developers check in on here, so I'd recommend emailing them instead.
Elvarion May 3, 2021 @ 3:17pm 
Originally posted by DUKAPb:
Its need to play for some Steam achievements.
2x Cash is definitely not needed to complete all Steam Achievements.
There is currently 18 Easy maps that are really really easy to complete on Chimps.
In Intermediate there is 5-6 really easy maps for Chimps, The rest are not that hard either.
Even Advanced has 2-3 pretty easy maps to complete in Chimps

You need to complete 15 of these for the Steam Achievement.

For the other Chimps Related Achievements just play Logs
Except "Joshs Constant", Which requires an Expert map. Do that on Dark Castle
PichuYang May 3, 2021 @ 9:26pm 
So... should the game explicitly told you that Double Cash mode is a cheat mode? :btd6stunned:
I said yes, for clarification. But, do you feel happy if you're being told right on face with full caps that said "CHEAT ACTIVATED"? I guess no.

The main problem is you refused to even attempt a cheat-less mode, but just outright throwing tantrum. Beginner tracks are called "Beginner" for reasons. Just take a try.

Originally posted by eV:
He bought it. He should be able to use it. It doesn't matter that it's the hardest mode, the "true test of skill".
That's how Steam BTD 5 "free" Double Cash killed the game, period.

Originally posted by DUKAPb:
I have played Bloons 5 before. In that game it was free option for all modes. Why should I doubt that this option is not suitable for everyone in Bloons 6 if no correct info?
BTD 5 is originally a F2P Flash game. However to further support the team, they have released 1st deluxe version, called BTD 5 Deluxe. However, the whole thing was unavailable again, to be moved to BTD 5 Steam instead, such as better way to update the game.

For those paid version, they have a "free" Double Cash mode to thanks players supporting the BTD 5 all over the years. If such options is not available outside from Deluxe, people are going to be mad. That's why they HAVE to add for the sake of playerbase. At the same time, it indirectly killing those paid version by having no actual gameplay experience.

That's why in BTD 6 Double Cash mode is back in paywall. It is solely an option to support the developer by having a cheat mode. The whole game isn't designed for DC mode as well, unlike BTD 5 Mastery mode.
Last edited by PichuYang; May 3, 2021 @ 10:02pm
TrueEvil May 3, 2021 @ 10:00pm 
Originally posted by CatChu:
Originally posted by eV:
He bought it. He should be able to use it. It doesn't matter that it's the hardest mode, the "true test of skill".
That's how Steam BTD 5 "free" Double Cash killed the game, period.
Why does it matter? It's a singleplayer game for the most part. Someone gets a bunch of medals they shouldn't, so what? There's not even any sort of leaderboard functionality.

It's not like medals are a good measure of skill/knowledge since guides exist for every map and every mode.
PichuYang May 3, 2021 @ 10:11pm 
Originally posted by eV:
Why does it matter? It's a singleplayer game for the most part. Someone gets a bunch of medals they shouldn't, so what? There's not even any sort of leaderboard functionality.

It's not like medals are a good measure of skill/knowledge since guides exist for every map and every mode.
[EDIT] I don't agree that enabling DC mode for CHIMPS could cause a positive impact in the community. Despite we can't judge how others want to play, the impact could be negative than what we expect. It's a long story, but worth to think the consequences.

I agree that ppl "cheat" by watching Youtube, but, you are missing the point. It's about personal experience and respect. There are players who genuinely find that mode challenging, rewarding, respecting their own approach and others. Sometimes ppl see video just to understand the concept, not copying 50%+.

Double Cash ruins it too easily compared to "Easy CHIMPS" video,, even in Half Cash, making the whole game no longer fun. Player will lose the ability of how to appreciate what they have and how to respect own and others effort.

I don't think clarifying that DC mode is a cheat mode is a good thing as well, I would prefer a neutral "thanks you" and "this doesn't apply" tone. Still, OP can use it to farm Collection Event in less risky manner... it is an indirect benefit to hasten insta-collection.
Last edited by PichuYang; May 4, 2021 @ 3:03am
TrueEvil May 4, 2021 @ 12:30am 
Originally posted by CatChu:
Originally posted by eV:
Why does it matter? It's a singleplayer game for the most part. Someone gets a bunch of medals they shouldn't, so what? There's not even any sort of leaderboard functionality.

It's not like medals are a good measure of skill/knowledge since guides exist for every map and every mode.
So basically you are telling me that I paid for this game, I should enjoy this game by only playing meta. Since those black CHIMPS medals "ultimately means nothing", despite I personally enjoying the process with weird strategy.

So if I purchased Double Cash mode, I should be able to use in on CHIMPS, and turning this whole game P2W, creating drama everywhere, laugh at people who try hard, especially those expert players.

You are missing the point. It's about personal experience and respect. Double Cash obviously ruining it. It takes away the fun, it's just a cheat mode. You just build up economy so easily, even in Half Cash, making the whole game no longer fun. You will lose the ability of how to appreciate what you have and how to respect own and others effort.

Like I said, does OP feel happy if using Double Cash cannot earn medal or there is a constant message saying "Cheat activated" on top left? I guess no. Still, OP can use it to farm Collection Event in less risky manner... it is an indirect benefit to hasten insta-collection.
You are taking this personally when you shouldn't be, and are blowing this way out of proportion. I've never once told you how you should play. I think it is you who is missing the point.

You are clearly well knowledged in this game. You don't need any medals to tell you that. You enjoy the process, that's fine. I myself like spending my time to work with a particularly stupid strategy. But you contradict yourself by placing so much value on medals. If you enjoy the process with weird strategy, why care about some black medal you could earn by a simple YouTube search?

And yeah, no kidding using double cash is desecrating the challenge of the game. I never suggested that it's the same challenge. I'm rather insulted that you could conceivably believe that. I will happily point and laugh at someone boasting about their CHIMPS accomplishments if they used double cash to beat it. My point was that cheating should be allowed, not considered the same way legitimate play is. OP using double cash has no impact on you. And I don't think he's going to be gloating about his CHIMPS victories. So what's the point in telling him he can't use it?

It's not your place to tell people how to enjoy the game. If they prefer the freedom and ease of having twice the income, why bother to stop them. Maybe it does do away with the rewarding nature of the game. For me it probably would. But that's not the reality for all people. Just because YOU wouldn't like the game in a double cash state doesn't mean it's unenjoyable for anyone else. And it shouldn't matter to you if they're having an easy time with the game - since it's rather clearly not the same set of accomplishments.

If one were to use speedhacks to complete levels in Geometry Dash, one of my favorite games, I'd tell them to keep going as they please. Because it's a singleplayer game, and although I don't particularly subscribe to that manner of play myself, they can play it however they damn well please. They aren't disrupting any online features. So let them.

And I find it particularly appalling that someone as seemingly intelligent as yourself is so quick assume the worst of others. It's ludicrous to insinuate that anyone who uses cheats is incapable of appreciating the accomplishments of others. People who play with a cheat shouldn't be immediately assumed to "laugh at people who try hard" and "create drama everywhere". You yourself are blasting those who don't want to apply themselves or lack the time to do so, and you yourself are the one seemingly looking for a fight. Are you acting any differently than the people you describe?

And for the record - because this is probably coming up next. I don't support OP's quick aggression on the subject. Merely his right to have a problem.
Last edited by TrueEvil; May 4, 2021 @ 12:41am
Neit May 4, 2021 @ 1:15am 
Originally posted by DUKAPb:
Exactly, the description is not perfect. I did not make mistakes - I am not agreed with it. A mistake would be if it was directly written before purchase.
You missed the point. Description of what CHIMPS is, is long enough to give you a hint what are you about to face, but short enough not to bore you to death. Or would you prefer 10 page EULA, you have to scroll down through, check the box that you agree and click the button before you can play CHIMPS?

Originally posted by DUKAPb:
Example. You bought the game but no any info before purchase that you need high end pc for runing. You spend much money but can`t run the game. Why didn't the developer take care of it? Its his mistake.
Well I would sit down before the purchase, check reviews, do the googling, figure out that it requires high-end PC or has performance issue and act accordingly. I would do my research, like you could; https://bloons.fandom.com/wiki/C.H.I.M.P.S.

You would find out that Double Cash does not work there.

If this for some reason failed, or I wasn't convinced and proceeded with purchase against all the evidence, I would soon find out that game does not work and I would request a refund.

Which is what you should have done in the first place, as before you purchase Double Cash via Steam, it clearly states, in bold orange letters, before you make the purchase:
Steam offers refunds for these items within 48 hours of purchase if they have not been consumed, modified, or transferred.
As this thread was created 13 hours ago, as long as you didn't use the Double Cash and you have purchased it via Steam, you should be able to request the refund, which is exactly what you should have done in the first place,

Moral of the story: Do your research before you purchase something you consider expensive. It takes less than 5 minutes in most cases.
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Date Posted: May 3, 2021 @ 10:59am
Posts: 105