double gold should cost monkey money

[FormatDriveC]

It is way too expensive, and basicly makes the game become pay to win. Once a coop match starts and you realize your teamate have double gold, you just quit cause you already know you wont be able to enjoy the match anymore... same about churchill price, why military talents dont cut churchill and striker jones prices in half? they are military turrets as well, i bought churchill just to realize that you only will enjoy it if you drop a cache power... Neither is easy to farm powers, we could get a power at 50 - 150-250 waves and so on. the way the game is now, it just encourage people to cheat in order to enjoy the features ( there is already lots of people who exploited the power bug menu, already fixed but still ), same on map structures, it should cost gold not monkey money, monkey money is stupid limited, you guys just force people to buy monkey money ( wich is not cheap at my country, neither the double gold, its basicly a triple A game price, no thnx ). Just why would i buy double gold instead a game like CoD ( CoD is cheaper than the double gold BTW) ? or any other game for the same price? As usual Ninja kiwi need to realize the prices are stupid.Why the in game sales are highter than the game itself?

[PichuYang]

Because you aren't supposed to need Double Cash mode to beat the game on the first place. Just like many other games that start with small purchase price but still developing content, they have the right to release DLC and IAP to offer a way to support dev. It has become a norm over the years, it depends on how game company practice it.

The reasons of why paid-able BTD5 has Double Cash mode "free" is because it is a very long story. We have to talk about flash version, the Deluxe version, then mobile and Steam version. Implementing $$ on Double Cash mode would makes flash game players discouraged to support the dev. Indeed, those paid-able versions work like Deluxe on the first place: A way to support dev.

BTD6 is different, it is developed using different game engine, most items including Insta-Monkey is grind-able. But most importantly, CHIMPS mode counter P2W argument you made. Players can purchase Double Cash mode and use it whatever they want, except Race mode, CHIMPS, or turn off at all bcs they just want support dev.

Most importantly, you're receiving updates and new contents for free. Most things are fairly grind-able and beat-able. As long as you ACTUALLY play the game.

Military Hero don't have the half price Monkey Knowledge bonus is mainly because of game balancing reasons.

If this game is really as bad as what you describe, it won't be as popular as it is.

[ColossalCereal]

It is ridiculous that it costs real money. They nailed it in BTD5 where the only way to get double cash was to use monkey money - just gave all the more reason to grind.

I did end up buying it a while back and to be honest it can be fun to use every now and then, but it does remove a lot of the challenge and ultimately makes the game less fun. However with BTD5 I never got that vibe because you actually had to work towards getting it - so the reward actually felt rewarding to use.

I really hope they revamp it in BTD6 as an unlockable to buy in game with monkey money - then in turn give just a bunch of knowledge points/monkey money or whatever to compensate those who did buy it. I can't speak for everyone who's purchased it but I would love to actually work towards getting it like in BTD5, regardless of whether or not I already bought it.

[PichuYang]

Originally posted by ian:

I did end up buying it a while back and to be honest it can be fun to use every now and then, but it does remove a lot of the challenge and ultimately makes the game less fun.

Which is why making DC mode as a IAP is much fair.
Otherwise, it would be just another cakewall except CHIMPS, and players do not get to experience the actual value of the tower. Which is important for CHIMPS.

Unless you want to play Steam BTD5 and quit because of "free" Double Cash mode made it boring?

Originally posted by ian:

It is ridiculous that it costs real money. They nailed it in BTD5 where the only way to get double cash was to use monkey money.

It is mainly because BTD5 already has multiple versions. No one is happy to purchase Deluxe BTD5 and have to pay Double Cash mode over there as well. The business model for BTD6 is different. It is unfair to do such comparison.

I forgot to mention, you can sync data over to mobile, as long as you bind it under account. So there isn't such thing as "multiple versions" of BTD6. Everything including DC can be transferred.

[ColossalCereal]

Originally posted by CatChu:

Originally posted by ian:

It is ridiculous that it costs real money.

I did end up buying it a while back and to be honest it can be fun to use every now and then, but it does remove a lot of the challenge and ultimately makes the game less fun.

These 2 sentences conflict with each other. Which is why make it as a IAP is much fair.
Otherwise, it would be just another cakewall except CHIMPS, and players do not get to experience the actual value of the tower. Which is important for CHIMPS.

No, they don't conflict with each other. We have different mindsets. I get that in chimps the feature is disabled. I agree with that decision made by the devs but chimps also isn't the only mode in this game.

My argument is that when you buy it, it significantly decreases the rewarding feeling of utilizing double cash. In BTD5 you could feel good using it because if you got double cash it showed that you put in the time and effort to get it. In this game it does give off a pay to win-ish vibe - but I don't wanna say PTW because like you mentioned the game is totally beatable without it, but double cash makes it significantly easier.

I'm all in for supporting the devs, that was one of the selling factors as to why I did buy it. The BTD series were childhood games for me so I'm all in for showing the devs a little extra love in turn for the sentimental value. But alternatively I think the idea of using IAP to buy things such as cosmetics would be a far better route, as opposed to things that provide a significant advantage over other players who can't afford or get it.

[PichuYang]

Originally posted by ian:

No, they don't conflict with each other.

That part was my mistake. Just ignore it.

Originally posted by ian:

but chimps also isn't the only mode in this game.

CHIMPS isn't the only mode in the game, but it is also the necessary mode to get full medals. Otherwise why would you keep playing same map, different modes?

A lot of players think CHIMPS is hard is because they feel safer by going over-eco and having invaluable MK. Making DC mode unlockable as what you said spoil the players. Would you feel proud for having many black borders with DC on, or without it?

This can influence how players perceive the game, such as "Wow this Tier 5 is so cheap, I have so much money, it is going to be useless." It can develop an unhealthy mindset.

Also this, very important:
https://www.reddit.com/r/btd6/comments/8r4sdc/the_effects_of_double_cash_mode/
DISCLAIMER: OP only said this because CHIMPS isn't well known, read last part.

The biggest problem is not that it's a microtransation. The fact that double cash mode exists in any form is damaging to the game.
DC is what makes Steam BTD5 spoiled. As well as Mastery mode. We don't really want to see game balancing took place by taking DC mode into consideration.

Originally posted by ian:

as opposed to things that provide a significant advantage over other players who can't afford or get it.

That price is designed to push most players away from buying it. Only for the sake of support, just like highest tier of Patreon, Kofi Support, etc. Even developer agreeing on balancing game without DC: Everything is balanced around not having double cash. But DC mode still exist at very high price for the sake of dedicated support, because the game don't have better things to offer than DC back in 2 years ago. There is zero reason to mess with it right now.

Also, CHIMPS existence is very well known now, compared to 2 years ago. Tons of guides too.

[FormatDriveC]

The double gold removes most part of the chalenge? yeah, but, i at least want a chance to have some fun at coop, without someone using it and full whole map with turrets leaving me nothing to do than quit... Also its price is abusive, the game isnt for free, and there is already the option to buy monkey money, " oh but chimps" i already did some chimps ( 15 so far ) and it is not the only game mode. So far the only gamemode that i hate is half money, probably would the only place i would use the double cash but still i at least want to use it at coop, because i dont want to stand still looking at my screen untill match ends.

[H0LABANANA]

Originally posted by FormatDriveC:

The double gold removes most part of the chalenge? yeah, but, i at least want a chance to have some fun at coop, without someone using it and full whole map with turrets leaving me nothing to do than quit... Also its price is abusive, the game isnt for free, and there is already the option to buy monkey money, " oh but chimps" i already did some chimps ( 15 so far ) and it is not the only game mode. So far the only gamemode that i hate is half money, probably would the only place i would use the double cash but still i at least want to use it at coop, because i dont want to stand still looking at my screen untill match ends.

I haven't read the entire thread but here's my stance. Double cash is not necessary and although I liked it costing monkey money, I understand that NK is a company and still needs to profit money. If you're at the point where you're consistently running out of monkey money to buy powers and such, then just play some expert maps and get the monkey knowledge to get more cash. I see this co-op argument from someone and to that I can agree. I hate it when people are literally idiots but I don't understand why you don't just buy an 180 monkey money cash drop at the start and snowball your income, if you beaten so many maps on chimps then you probably know how to farm with deposit MK.

[FormatDriveC]

No im at the point i avoid using insta turrets and powers because they are just unfair and brake the game, i just dont understand why doubloe cash cost real money instead of monkey money, its not even a necessary thing. But then some idiotic will buy it just to annoy coop matches, i dont understand why something like this cost real money, to be true it should not even be in the game, but since it is at least make it buyable for the game currency. Got inside a coop impopable, and it was just dumb because some random guy had it, P2W and P2annoy.

Coop also need improvements, it is just a mess.

[H0LABANANA]

Yes, co-op delay is REALLY bad but remember still, NK needs to make money, although I hate double cash mode on co-op and the people that spam 69 cash drops at the start, it's still fun because it's just a game, and you can disconnect.

[Genevir]

Forget it, delusional people on this forum will try their best to say that the game has 0 pay to win elements even when it's clear as day that it does. They use the dumbest arguments that make no sense. ''it isn't necessary'' yeah no ♥♥♥♥ it isn't but it's still in the game and can ruin co-op and give other people a big advantage.

[H0LABANANA]

Bro, stop with the "delusional," YES IT OBVIOUSLY FRICKING HAS PAY TO WIN ELEMENTS NOBODY'S DENYING THAT. Just fking fight fire with fire and YOU FKING CONTRADICTED YOURSELF. Sorry for the incoherent sentences, basically, sure, I don't play co-op. If this is an actual problem then just use benjamin and actually farm well, how does it give them an advantage if you're all on the same side, also?

[Genevir]

Originally posted by H0LABANANA:

Bro, stop with the "delusional," YES IT OBVIOUSLY FRICKING HAS PAY TO WIN ELEMENTS NOBODY'S DENYING THAT. Just fking fight fire with fire and YOU FKING CONTRADICTED YOURSELF. Sorry for the incoherent sentences, basically, sure, I don't play co-op. If this is an actual problem then just use benjamin and actually farm well, how does it give them an advantage if you're all on the same side, also?

Nope, a lot of people are in fact denying that. And your arguments are dumb af. It's so sad that people can be this delusional lmao.

''just use benjamin'' first off, they can use him as well. And second, if being forced to play a certain hero is your definition of fun then idk.

But then again I shouldn't expect people to have good arguments when they are arguing against a fact.

[H0LABANANA]

Gaah this is so stupid, bruh. What even is this argument, that double cash should cost monkey monkey? "It's so sad that people can be this delusional lmao." That's the most beautiful sentence I've ever heard (in a good way), what is this fact I hear? It's definitely a fact that a corporation should change their microtransactions to be in-game currency, yes I do agree! I never played BTD5 mobile so I'm sort of going into a territory I don't know so you full well might just be right, but saying "arguing against a fact" is the most bull thing I've ever heard about an opinion.

[H0LABANANA]

I just realized, this is sort of "lAte GAme iS sUPerior!!" all over again but with an actually debatable subject so whoo!

[Genevir]

Originally posted by H0LABANANA:

Gaah this is so stupid, bruh. What even is this argument, that double cash should cost monkey monkey? "It's so sad that people can be this delusional lmao." That's the most beautiful sentence I've ever heard (in a good way), what is this fact I hear? It's definitely a fact that a corporation should change their microtransactions to be in-game currency, yes I do agree! I never played BTD5 mobile so I'm sort of going into a territory I don't know so you full well might just be right, but saying "arguing against a fact" is the most bull thing I've ever heard about an opinion.

The fact is that this game is pay to win. If you want another fact, there are free to play games that can still live just by making skins instead of gameplay altering microtransactions. This game already costs money and has pay to win micro as well. It's also popular enough to get a lot of money out of cosmetics alone so they don't actually need the money from double cash or anything else.