New to co op. eco question

[snaketeeth01]

Have been playing solo campaign up until recently. leveling up and developing strategies for each map. blah blah.
Just started playing co op a few day's ago and I dig it.

It say's up front somehow that income is shared.
It took me a bit to see how that works.
with 2 players, popping red of 1 value. It goes like 1 to me, 1 to you. and back forth.

I got that now. So I see it does not matter which player kills ballons with what, we all get a rotating split share.
Now.. I main Benjamin.
And I tend to play eco heavy builds.

How does this affect co op?

What happens, when benjamin increases the wave start income?
"benjamin hack in an extra $100"
Does that go only to me, or do we get 50 each?

What happens when he hits level 8?
"income increased to $250".
Is that upping each player's wave start?

Banana farms though.
Whats up?
I can see the + value when banana are picked up.
but only the owning player is getting that right?
Is there any shared income from any banking or farms?

I like the strategy of rushing lowest tree in alchemist.
To have lead to gold by round 28 turning lead to +50 each. I know that additional income gets split. so I can go right for that and share.
What about when I build a monkey village.. and apply discount.
Do other players get that discount applied when they build nearby?
What about when I level to monkey village and increase income per pop to affected units?

For me, building into banks and markets allows to me to build many tier 5 buildings well before level 100 hits.
I know I can give money to other players directly, and sometimes I will do this.
I will go pure eco, and just gold share to somebody else to pool.
That works.

I see many players who will go eco build for first 30 rounds or so. Build nothing but eco.
Then by the time the later waves come, they are uber rich and drop a power tower that carries a few waves for other players to up eco a bit and bolster defense all around.
That is a fine enough strategy.
Reminds me of starcraft economic team style games where you pass off rounds of defense so players can build their ecos up safely.

I enjoy main benjamin and enjoy eco heavy builds.
I do not mind feeding bananas to players directly. But I do like getting alchemist as well.

What about the bloon trap from engineer?
What about druid skill, or sniper drop? Are these purely personal eco?

[DarkMatter]

Income outside the cash earned from pops and end of round bonus is not shared.

Therefore, cash earned from ben, farms, bloon traps, obyn's trees, and rubber to gold is for you alone.

Buffs like the discount from 002 village can be used by other players and so is ben's Bank buff.

[Hiroko]

Pretty sure pops give a decimal value of money income (or the reverse, you get +1 after X pops value). This is evident by A) everyone gets pop-cash at the same time and B) decreasing rewards in later rounds.

Banana Co.
Yes, only the owner gets the income from his farms, but everyone sees the bananas. I like to imagine the other players are scrambling to pick up my bananas before they expire.

"I know that additional income gets split."
"What about the bloon trap from engineer?
What about druid skill, or sniper drop? Are these purely personal eco?"
Extra income is personal eco building. You don't share it. I'm a big fan of bloon trap spam (start of track). Merchantmen (bottom path boat) are also big money once you get started while also having solid defense considering the eco. Sniper is so inefficient for eco, I struggle to accept him being called an eco option. To the best of my knowledge, only starting cash, end of round cash, and pops cash are shared. Double Cash mode also will only affect the players who own it.

"Do other players get that discount applied when they build nearby?"
Yes. Same for other buffs from all towers, heros included. Don't build near your teammates alch+ninja combo please. They will be raging even if you can't see it.

[DarkMatter]

Originally posted by Hiroko:

Don't build near your teammates alch+ninja combo please. They will be raging even if you can't see it.

Easiest way to piss off good players out there.

They have special place in hell.

[snaketeeth01]

This all sounds sensible.

Still, I can build a "eco support" style, and not be a drain entirely.
Offering village buffs for one, and the ability to drop in few but expensive towers or tech as needed.

It's a shame the rubber to gold is not shared.. are you sure about that one?
That is the one buff I thought would be shared. As I understand it.
The buff is applied to the bloon itself as indicated by the shiny gold that encases the balloon.
Which "increases the pop value"
ie, if a ceramic is worth 50, when killed, that 50 would distribute 25 25 to 2 players.
But if that ceramic is hit with rubber to gold, and then becomes worth.. 80.. you are saying, he gets 25, and I get 55?

Hm. If the bonus is released when the balloon is popped, I get it. I thought the pop value was increased.

As for the sniper being eco friendly or not.
MM.. Eh? meh?Eh..
I mean.. it depends on how you interpret eco I guess?
It is my style of game :p
So I have explored it in many fashions, as well as put in the time and effort to learn systems and how they are best gamed.
Usually, there is a balance of resisting the tempation of going the route of least resistance, while leaning into what is "best value".
I feel what you mean as sniper not being so eco friendly as the value is not apparent up front.
The high cost for the buff, the rate of payout, by the time you get it you can be set up enough you can have other options for defense, why invest in that eco option so late or at all?

Well, here is my stance on that.
It comes down to how long does it take to replace a set number?
In any investment style game, it takes X minutes to get to 1000 resources.
As you spend that 1000 on upgrades that increase your income per second, or tick.
X is decreased.
Over and over again until that 1k is coming so fast, and upgrades are costing more, where the goal gets shifted to 10k.
Why do I do this?
It makes sense when you read it in scientific notation.

1.0 is 1.0e0 or 1.0
10.0 is 1.0e1

5.0 is 5.0 e1

Knowing the reduction in your head quickly is handy, I find.
I consider each 0.0! through 9.99 a "set"
It just repeats over and over and over.
So to me, 5 minutes to reach 1.0e4
invest, 4 minutes to reach 1.0e4
repeat repeat. Eventually, and inevitably you will increase your rate by 1000% which is +e1
Knowing this, How long does it takes you to gain +e1?
Tracking these growth rates closely in some systems will let you find when the "best window" to prestige in as your rates fall off compared to what the rates will be per 5 minutes post investment.
The hell did I just say?

Look. Spend 5.5k to upgrade druid eco.
Gain 600 per use, use is time limited to 60 seconds.
Your income before investment being 5.5e4 per 5 min.
now increased by 3.0e4 per 5.
We can reduce all that nonsense to see that it will now take 3.235 minutes to regain the 5.5k investment.
You can sit on that again. With a second druid, another 300, 600, 5500 investment for another +600 per 1 or 1,941 per 3.24 minute.
Getting my meaning? Eh?

It is like climbing.. the more you can invest, the faster you get it back? Kinda?
The 7+k for sniper is debatable. I go back and forth on it.
I find it is worth it in some situations, and in other times, not. I find it to be an option to lean to when my "best case" options do not pan out in the timing I hope for, the 7k invest can be a little something to get something coming in.

[Ackranome]

Basically Ben will trojan the bloons and prevent allies from getting money - Ben will still grant you full money.

Technically - if everyone brought a Ben it'd be like you were paying 1/4th Cash Mode with everyone together not sharing but you'd get Ben's bonus. The issue ultimately is how expensive Ben is in Hard+ maps in Co-Op thus everyone wants Ben but everyone needs to understand you have to share money and get Ben 1x at a time with everyone pooling resources until you all have the Hero created all while staying alive the entire time.

CO-OP mode was designed with Powers and MK in-mind.

The devs want you use to use insta monkeys and powers.

I personally look at CO-OP as the 'super hard mode' of the game as you're at a huge disadvantage from the very start.

[DarkMatter]

OP you are taking this coop economy waaaay too much into detail. Best way to do this is to just have fun.

When I play with random, I would make a "feel" of the game. If everyone else is concentrating on defense. I go farming mode.
If everyone else is farming, I go defense mode to protect their assets. If everyone is after the glory of the top pop count at the end of the game, everyone will fail.
Make a feel of the defense and see if its sufficient enough and change your playstyle. Coop is very dynamic due to other player's tower choices.

In a coop game where stable communication is established, games can be tackled easier because of a good teamwork and of course communication, you can reach out and do what role each player will perform.