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i here by declare ezili to be the most overpower hero!
The playerbase is not full of understandable players who will understand what each other is trying to do, especially going from R 81 to 100. Plus, there are quite a lot of Youtube videos indirectly promoting cheesy strategy. Like the usage of Heli thanks to "Easy CHIMPS".
Not every player can develop a "common sense", such as keep asking money to go for Apache in Coop, even though it isn't an optimal situation to do so. Guess what's next, that player buy another Heli and I don't have enough money to handle DDT.
It's not the balancing issues, in fact, NK done a lot already. Like right now, almost every Tier 5 can hit DDT. That's just big woah. Why? Do you think your coop partner will check if their crucial tower is under MIB? No.
I'm sure that Hero in Coop could be more interesting, but even if they buff Ezili, she is still not a friendly Hero to everyone. Because she is more on specializing countering specific bloons.
Quincy is not a disaster choice, he can pops bloons more reliably early on. Churchill has powerful straight line attack. It's basically the same perception as playing in SP, but they all have lower level and number advantage. You just have to learn how to make use of it, rather than suspecting their capability.
Even if you got better coop Hero, it doesn't do much, it's coop with random. What you expect? Mind control other players? Nah, nope.
Having Benji means you don't have to rely on a lot of powers / farms to eek by on hard.
I rarely see people playing chimps, half cash, or impoppable on co-op and most leave immediately once the game starts because the game effectively is teaching you to 'give money' to one player the entire time and let them play solo by virtue of it.
Forgot the water hero's name but naval tactics ability is INSANE
Community asking for Co-op, asking for more emote, asking better connection, asking... there are too much to list. But this game can go as low as to even 0.99 USD, and it isn't Fallout 76, Cyberpunk 2077, EA, Ubisoft, "Acti-Blizzard", typical mobile P2W, etc.
What rather part of the community did is to teach newer players how to cheese CHIMPS via Apache, Obyn-Ninja-Alche start. Hard Odyssey with some very cheesy tactics. It's not like I'm against it, but more or less, it has impact to those public random players you found. They may not be able to be versatile and still play this game via the given formula.
Remember that human DO "Monkey see, monkey do". If community say Ezili is terrible, promoting "aggressive economy", so does the public randoms. Shimmer with Wall of Fire is something I see a lot, even though I gave enough money to expect seeing a Dragon's Breath handling R40's MOAB, while my Etienne is on field... Shimmer with Etienne, "best" combo. Why they don't pick and place Ezili at least? Is she needs more buff? No.
It's because of "Monkey see, monkey do".
I'm sure NK can add penalty that if a leaver happens to be in that way, the last player won't be receiving leaver's cash at all. But does that really change the fact that:
- "I'm in unoptimal position, so giving money is my best bet"
- "Make territory system better and prevent the fact of certain players won't place free Dart in unoptimal position"
- "Benjamin should be cheaper so that the partner won't go rush 3 Farms before R40"?
NK can do balancing, but community is the actual reason affecting Co-op experience, especially this is supposedly an all-age friendly game. What do you want NK to do?
https://www.reddit.com/r/btd6/comments/jx2ztq/thank_you_ninja_kiwi/
I mean, seriously. Why some of us can't step out and make the first change instead?
That's not "balancing" it's "catering." That being said, I think most T5 tower should be able to hit DDT and not tie everything to an MIB. Personally, I AM one of those people who make sure all my towers are under MIB, but after playing some amount of Co-op I seem to be in the minority (though not by a huge margin).
On topic, I do think that Benjamin is notably better than most of the other heroes. This is because a lot of the heroes don't scale well into late game outside of their ability. Their combat prowess must then be utilized as a stop-gap for early to mid game to justify their use since otherwise you don't reach the required level for those abilities (there are of course exceptions--Churchill seems consistently through most waves pretty strong in regular combat but I haven't used him a lot yet). However, I've found that the up-front cost of most heroes is too high to be of any significant use. You need to place them pretty early to get that exp going in order to fill out that mid-game role and get their level 10 ability that has a strong impact, but that directly competes with any early farming or defense variation you may need (spreading your forces out for harder maps or camo detection/lead popping or whatever else you may need that the hero does not provide).
To this end, I ironically find Quincy to be an excellent hero. He's cheap, he can detect camo before any significant camo comes/any camo comes, and he gets the job done until you can afford better stuff. Obyn also is pretty useful in my experience. Other heroes that cost a bit more though, like Gwendolyn and Adora? Forget about it.
I have a lot of experience in bloons TD in general (mostly 5--some battles, some town, and some this game), and while I realize there are a lot of strats and things that I don't know that may make some of these heroes more useful than I give them credit, if I as a relatively seasoned player don't understand how to make them more useful than the "easy to use heroes" even after some experimentation, how is the average player that you seem to believe they have successfully catered to meant to make good use of them? By the very merit you gave to NK--"making most T5 towers able to hit DDT" as an ease of use functionality--heroes ought to have the same treatment, no? (personally I don't necessary believe this one way or the other--I'm just pointing out what is, to me, a glaring flaw in your logic)
I don't really intend to stay here and debate about it though. I know there's blame to put on "the average player" for making most of these other heroes less popular, but I certainly don't think it rests solely on them.
DDT? Lv 10 Gwen's can apply Heat it Up via Firestorm. Don't need level 20. Surely she looks expensive, but has valuable lead support.
This is where the ideas of "having multiple of heroes is better" kicks in. The problem is, it doesn't work as Warcraft 3's multiplayer experience. WC3 players understand that Town Hall tech and number of Heroes in range affect XP rate, plus the matured community and chat function to kindly tell others "TC lv3". So the ally will pull off because Lv3 Hero can unlock a Level 2 of the ability, which can turn the tide, such as TC's Lv2 Shockwave with respectable dmg towards 4 vs 4 Tier 1-2 ground units.
But BTD6 is just so much different compared to WC3, including the given feedback, X years of community vs XX years, scale of the company, the belief of "the more the merrier", etc.
Adora and Churchill are harder to use than Gwen because they offer not much of utility at lower level. Churchill is slightly better than Adora due to Machine Gun and MOAB Barrage. But Adora's Ball of Light next power spike is at Level 15, mostly killing some non-ceramics, lol.
For sure we can add more utility, such as lower Churchill price by 100, Adora basic attack slightly slow R81+ Super Ceramics, etc. But NK already did a lot, including the said Lv 15 Ball of Lighting, which could have came months earlier. If you want to say "unfair treatment", I would give this to both Adora and Churchill, not Gwen.
But a "real" Co-op game involving communication on Discord, etc. Such as "I want Adora main, can you only place Obyn at RX instead?" or "sell your Benjamin/Quincy".
It's the community figures out how to handle the XP sharing mechanic, meanwhile NK is trying to make Heroes less likely locked into "brute force only" option. It's just that BTD6 community hasn't matured yet, but after 5 years, we could have some next level of co-op experience. Who knows?
I can imagine a way more fun experience if they put heroes more in line with each other both in term of power and price, literally everyone play benjamin + some quincy-obyn here and there it's boring, seems like other heroes are only fun in solo mode
NK already did their job over patches, it's just players being reluctant. Like I said about Gwendolin:
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/960090/view/2883956358788539311
Gwendolin’s Heat it Up! attack/buff has been sitting in a weird spot where it would benefit from attack speed but does not because of the cooldown which prevents it ever having full uptime. This rework makes her have a roughly similar uptime at all levels without being buffed...
Level 4 Heat it up! cooldown reduced from 15s to 4.5s
Level 4 Heat it up! Shots required to trigger has been scaled up to her match her innate attack rate at all levels
--------------
You don't even need high level Gwen! But guess what?
What do you mean by "not good for variety"? Every hero must be as strong as Benjamin? Every hero must get the same exp rate? Benjamin's income must be average to every other players so P3's purpose is useless afterwards?
Can't you elaborate more?
Like I said, it's the community has to work together too. Even if NK makes Gwendolin passive playstyle works well with Tackzone strategy, there must have players appreciate it. What's happen if you give monkey a flower? An expensive one. They eat it!
-----------
https://imgur.com/qvLmoap
I see someone picked Gwen so I used Tackzone strategy. Cannot pass through R95 - 98. Why? Is it because Gwen not strong enough?
You said Benjamin is good, but actually they don't do much except placing unnecessary Shimmer and never help me pass Tier 5 Tackzone. How is that being a "good hero"? Obyn player could have gone Tornado or Bloon Sabotage, but just random stuff. Or delay the placement/sell and replace to let Gwen pass Lv 15.
We lose because no one wants to work a strategy around Gwen-Tackzone. Not bcs of "not good for variety". I can just use Benjamin or Obyn, but what if I have a bad attitude? Same bad result.
It's not hero being imbalance. It's about our attitude. More than this game I played, using Obyn/Benjamin =/= good player/win the game:
https://i.redd.it/7ryccdnap1y41.jpg
It isn't just one-way interaction only.
Balancing Hero to be truly fun among public co-op without community support is harder than you thought. One hand will never be able to clap.
Also the net code is atrocious. Drop much?
EZILI #1 BUFF HER NOW
WE DEMAND CHANGE!