Dartling Gun, why did they ruin it?

[mut0rcs]

I really don't understand, why they make them move it so slowly. Know it's official unsuable on coop. It's even a ♥♥♥♥ on solo but on coop it's like to play a laggy-game.

Why the hell do you made the dartling gun slow ? It's a shame it was not available on BTD6 but it's even more a shame, you ruin the great tower by making the ability (moveable) useless.

And then you even make it more useless, when you use not the third upgrade path. It's like a punch in all the faces, who waited for the dartling gun. It's really funny how you made this tower since BTD5 Flash version worse and worse and know it's completly useless trash.

[mut0rcs]

At the end i don't care, what the (technical) problem is. I see it's possible on BTD5 perfectly and they ruin it on BTD6 so i really don't care about technicall issues. They have to fix that.

At the end it doesn't matter if the problem comes from the slow moving (delayed) d-gun in BTD6 or if this "only" makes it worse. But anyway: There is the problem and a lot of players have it (like me). I gues most of players have this problem. And at the same time, it's working on BTD5 so it is not something, which is technically impossible or so. Maybe the Coop wprks different on BTD6. But then this is the problem of Ninja Kiwi and they have to fix/change that.

It works totally fine in BTD5.

[<font color="red">Rohan</font>]

Messaggio originale di mut0rcs:

At the end i don't care, what the (technical) problem is. I see it's possible on BTD5 perfectly and they ruin it on BTD6 so i really don't care about technicall issues. They have to fix that.

At the end it doesn't matter if the problem comes from the slow moving (delayed) d-gun in BTD6 or if this "only" makes it worse. But anyway: There is the problem and a lot of players have it (like me). I gues most of players have this problem. And at the same time, it's working on BTD5 so it is not something, which is technically impossible or so. Maybe the Coop wprks different on BTD6. But then this is the problem of Ninja Kiwi and they have to fix/change that.

It works totally fine in BTD5.

To be clear BTD5 "didn't have co-op" and that's why it seemed perfectly fine there.

BTD5 co-op was singleplayer that also happened to tell someone else when you did some things and behind the scenes it tried to lie to you to make it look like you were having a co-op experience but this is barely true at all and often it had to catch up and delete Bloons that your ally thought were popped even though you might not have actually seen them popped at all, or it'd just let them leak for one person but not take lives for it, just stuff like this behind the scenes was how it functioned.

Not much more was really put into it than that since co-op was not popular in BTD5 (Yes, I know some people will stand by co-op in BTD5 being all they ever cared about but overall it just wasn't incredibly popular)



BTD6 was designed with actual synced co-op and was quite far along in production before we found how much more that struggles in many cases since it generally works fine in the same building on the same platform, but we wanted to make it properly that way because of all the issues this weakness caused in 5. It still does need a lot of work unfortunately

[mut0rcs]

Messaggio originale di -<-><-:

Messaggio originale di mut0rcs:

At the end i don't care, what the (technical) problem is. I see it's possible on BTD5 perfectly and they ruin it on BTD6 so i really don't care about technicall issues. They have to fix that.

At the end it doesn't matter if the problem comes from the slow moving (delayed) d-gun in BTD6 or if this "only" makes it worse. But anyway: There is the problem and a lot of players have it (like me). I gues most of players have this problem. And at the same time, it's working on BTD5 so it is not something, which is technically impossible or so. Maybe the Coop wprks different on BTD6. But then this is the problem of Ninja Kiwi and they have to fix/change that.

It works totally fine in BTD5.

To be clear BTD5 "didn't have co-op" and that's why it seemed perfectly fine there.

BTD5 co-op was singleplayer that also happened to tell someone else when you did some things and behind the scenes it tried to lie to you to make it look like you were having a co-op experience but this is barely true at all and often it had to catch up and delete Bloons that your ally thought were popped even though you might not have actually seen them popped at all, or it'd just let them leak for one person but not take lives for it, just stuff like this behind the scenes was how it functioned.

Not much more was really put into it than that since co-op was not popular in BTD5 (Yes, I know some people will stand by co-op in BTD5 being all they ever cared about but overall it just wasn't incredibly popular)



BTD6 was designed with actual synced co-op and was quite far along in production before we found how much more that struggles in many cases since it generally works fine in the same building on the same platform, but we wanted to make it properly that way because of all the issues this weakness caused in 5. It still does need a lot of work unfortunately

Thank you for your answer.

So coop in BTD5 was just 2 players starting at the same time the same map :D ? I always thought they really are strange players. Were they even real people or was this only a bot? Because they felt sometimes like computers.

But anyway: So why do i have problems then (and others to, there were a lot other people who said the same thing) and some people here say, they have no problem at all in coop ?

Is this because of the geographical distance of the player to each other? So because of the ping which is higher, when you have no playerbase in your region?

But so you won't be able to fix that soon, if this is a general problem i guess? In my opinion then it's more reasonable to don't allow d-gun on coop. Because i died now a lot of times because people were not able to follow fast enough. Even if this was always my favorite tower (in BTD5 Flash version).

But i still think, it's a horrible idea to make it turn around so slow/delayed. Even with x/x/1 it's not follow you correctly. It's like 20 years ago where you had to "correct/calculate" the incorrect control of games.

Edit: and i didn't like the coop in BTD5 either. I felt always playing alone. Now i know why, lol

[<font color="red">Rohan</font>]

Messaggio originale di mut0rcs:

Thank you for your answer.

So coop in BTD5 was just 2 players starting at the same time the same map :D ? I always thought they really are strange players. Were they even real people or was this only a bot? Because they felt sometimes like computers.

But anyway: So why do i have problems then (and others to, there were a lot other people who said the same thing) and some people here say, they have no problem at all in coop ?

Is this because of the geographical distance of the player to each other? So because of the ping which is higher, when you have no playerbase in your region?

But so you won't be able to fix that soon, if this is a general problem i guess? In my opinion then it's more reasonable to don't allow d-gun on coop. Because i died now a lot of times because people were not able to follow fast enough. Even if this was always my favorite tower (in BTD5 Flash version).

But i still think, it's a horrible idea to make it turn around so slow/delayed. Even with x/x/1 it's not follow you correctly. It's like 20 years ago where you had to "correct/calculate" the incorrect control of games.

Edit: and i didn't like the coop in BTD5 either. I felt always playing alone. Now i know why, lol

Well, more than just that as they did try to communicate after that on most things. You could still define this as co-op but it just wouldn't ever try to truly recover from a problem, or even tell the other client that something went wrong which is why I said it's not really actual 'co-op'. This is why in many BTD5 co-op games you'll eventually get to the point where one player finishes the round long before the other, because some critical error has occurred which is now causing one player to have a stronger defence and the other client just doesn't know about this.

Distance & internet speed is a large factor. But one of the biggest issues with BTD6 co-op is just platform. We have recurring issues where some devices (mainly cross platform) just can't play with others without serious issues and constant resyncs, and we try to limit those players matching in public lobbies but entering codes gets around this since we don't want to block friends joining each other.
But for example, 2 people just playing on steam together in the same building just should rarely ever have any issues since they avoid both these problems

[HoBoMiKe]

Messaggio originale di Wesco:

Upgrades cost too much for what they offer, it was good in btd5 but in btd6 there are so many better option for the same amount of money.

3xx (4590$) and 4xx (11880$) a total of 16390$ and can't even hit the purple bloons.

x3x (5670$) the best path... or the less worst path... is overall decent but again better option for the price

i remenber people complaining about the heli "fast darts" upgrade being useless and it is just 250$.... well with the dartling xx3 you need to spend 4320$ and the tower still can't hit the lead, lose a lot of range and attack speed.... basically 4320$ to watch all the pink and yellow pass...

xx4 (12960$) I never liked the manual aim so this is my favourite upgrade but... well... the dartling 024 cost a total of 21055$ and still need the support for the lead... not the best choice.

while i disagree with the original post, i DO AGREE WITH this.


the dartling gun, as a military tower, needs to be less expensive, as well as it's 1st and 2nd tier upgrades.


the upgrades ARE COOL, but making the dartling gun slow and then adding an upgrade to fix that seems like an odd thing to do. imagine all the other things you could have put in that slot; maybe the gun could gain the option to have occasional "special" darts that do extra damage or remove camo, but only while in "follow" mode, and reduced spread, but only while in "locked" mode.


this would encourage people to change the targeting of the tower based on their preferred playstyle, instead of the track's shape.

[Jon.Topps]

The dartling gun was super OP in BTD5. I knew the moment they introduced it here, either it would dramatically change the entire meta, or they would have to nerf it to keep the basic meta, and everyone would be mad because it's not as good as it was.

[Hiroko]

Lazer path weak till t3, op at t4, stupid op at t5
Rocket path fair at t2, strong at t3, not worth getting t4/5
Buck path fair at t2, fair t3, slightly less op then lazer at t4, not worth t5 over more t4 towers.

[Ninja Zyborg]

It's really funny that you said it sucks since my friend says it's OP and i only say x/x/3 needs a buff

[Mittens]

yeesh the community were practicly begging for the dartling gunner ninja kiwi is really nice and gives it to us and now were complaining about how its 'underpowered' or "cant pop all bloon types" i mean come on guys give ninja kiwi a break its not a bad tower if its a little expensive. what did you expect it to just destroy everything like in a pinch with a cheap price. btd6 is for balance not for op

[Mittens]

on top of that coop was always laggy and sucks

[mut0rcs]

I actually never complained about the damage of the dartling gun in BTD6. I only say it's an ultra bad idea to make it move slower, especially when the developers knows the issues in coop. They make it even worse with that.

And i don't think it was OP in BTD5 Steam version. And in BTD6 you can have only 1 LV5 each path and why should there be only 1 very badass tower like sungod? Actually it is on lv4 really not a very good tower for high rounds. So i like to have at least some other towers, which are good and not totally useless, when you go for high rounds. On Lv5 it's good, but it's not op. It's good, how it is for Path 1 and 2 (on Lv5). So at least from the damage side.

The Problem is the laggy handling.

[CrescentMouse]

Messaggio originale di mut0rcs:

I actually never complained about the damage of the dartling gun in BTD6. I only say it's an ultra bad idea to make it move slower, especially when the developers knows the issues in coop. They make it even worse with that.

And i don't think it was OP in BTD5 Steam version. And in BTD6 you can have only 1 LV5 each path and why should there be only 1 very badass tower like sungod? Actually it is on lv4 really not a very good tower for high rounds. So i like to have at least some other towers, which are good and not totally useless, when you go for high rounds. On Lv5 it's good, but it's not op. It's good, how it is for Path 1 and 2 (on Lv5). So at least from the damage side.

The Problem is the laggy handling.

Actually there's a lot of badass towers. And the dartling gunner is pretty bad. And I think we've established that you're in the handling minority.

[HoBoMiKe]

Messaggio originale di CrescentMouse:

Messaggio originale di mut0rcs:

I actually never complained about the damage of the dartling gun in BTD6. I only say it's an ultra bad idea to make it move slower, especially when the developers knows the issues in coop. They make it even worse with that.

And i don't think it was OP in BTD5 Steam version. And in BTD6 you can have only 1 LV5 each path and why should there be only 1 very badass tower like sungod? Actually it is on lv4 really not a very good tower for high rounds. So i like to have at least some other towers, which are good and not totally useless, when you go for high rounds. On Lv5 it's good, but it's not op. It's good, how it is for Path 1 and 2 (on Lv5). So at least from the damage side.

The Problem is the laggy handling.

Actually there's a lot of badass towers. And the dartling gunner is pretty bad. And I think we've established that you're in the handling minority.

which towers do you consider good

[CrescentMouse]

Messaggio originale di HoBoMiKe:

Messaggio originale di CrescentMouse:

Actually there's a lot of badass towers. And the dartling gunner is pretty bad. And I think we've established that you're in the handling minority.

which towers do you consider good

Sniper pretty g, dart monkey can be solid start I prefer it over ninja, alchemist is great later on, wizard is of course the usual goodie, I like ice tower a bit but I'm pretty sure it's just me, bomb tower is my go to anti-moab and life saver with bomb blitz, those are a few of my faves

[FreezeGoD]

Damn thank the devs for clearing that thing about BTD5 Coop. Always felt like its just a client sided sync, great to know it actually is!