Japanese Oil Embargo?

[Resoula]

Question about the Japanese oil embargo. Since oil in this game seems to primarily be MPP generators, rather than an actual resource, does getting oil actually help with the embargo? Or is the "oil" part historical flavor, and this is simply a replication of a nerfed Japanese economy to push you into attacking the Pacific allies for more resources?

[GoldenTalon]

Historical flavor - really MPP hit and national morale hit.

[atshii]

Message is about historical flavor, yes. Forces Japan toward war in Pacific.

Basically any time you get a notification at the start of the turn or after you press "end turn" button, something happens with either MPPs, national morale or diplomacy percentages.

For example every time the message/notification about Norwegians getting pissed about England messing with the convoy routes appears, Norway diplomacy moves closer to Axis.

I think game does not communicate that well, new players easily thing, "ok that is interesting" but leave it at that.

I would like to see all these percentage changes displayed with all the notifications. (Just simple "Norway moves toward Axis 5 %" type of info, or "Japan NM -4 % and production -50 MPP" info with the Oil Embargo).

[Resoula]

Thank you for the answers. Is there a timer on the oil embargo debuffs? Like, is there a set amount of turns until it stops getting worse? Or is there something you're supposed to do as Japan to stop it manually?

[atshii]

Originally posted by Resoula:

Thank you for the answers. Is there a timer on the oil embargo debuffs? Like, is there a set amount of turns until it stops getting worse? Or is there something you're supposed to do as Japan to stop it manually?

You get the money flowing again by taking Dutch East Indies (and other countries) when the convoys activate.

[Resoula]

Originally posted by atshii:

Originally posted by Resoula:

Thank you for the answers. Is there a timer on the oil embargo debuffs? Like, is there a set amount of turns until it stops getting worse? Or is there something you're supposed to do as Japan to stop it manually?

You get the money flowing again by taking Dutch East Indies (and other countries) when the convoys activate.

Is that an event-based thing? Does the original money return? Or is that just because the DEI is worth so much in convoys?

[GoldenTalon]

Originally posted by Resoula:

Originally posted by atshii:

You get the money flowing again by taking Dutch East Indies (and other countries) when the convoys activate.

Is that an event-based thing? Does the original money return? Or is that just because the DEI is worth so much in convoys?

No you need to DoW DEI and take Batavia. Then after a few turns harbor will be rebuilt and convoys restart. Normally you do this between Dec '41 and 'Feb '42 and you coordinate with attacks on Pearl, Midway, Philippines, New Guinea, Solomons, Wake, Hong Kong and possibly Burma. Wait for US Mobilization to hit ~80% to unleash attack and you need to launch your AVLs/AV and position in time along with CVs, etc.

[Resoula]

Originally posted by GoldenTalon:

Originally posted by Resoula:

Is that an event-based thing? Does the original money return? Or is that just because the DEI is worth so much in convoys?

No you need to DoW DEI and take Batavia. Then after a few turns harbor will be rebuilt and convoys restart. Normally you do this between Dec '41 and 'Feb '42 and you coordinate with attacks on Pearl, Midway, Philippines, New Guinea, Solomons, Wake, Hong Kong and possibly Burma. Wait for US Mobilization to hit ~80% to unleash attack and you need to launch your AVLs/AV and position in time along with CVs, etc.

Hey, thanks for your response. I wanted to say that I understand that the invasion is manual, and that getting the convoys helps get MPPs rolling back into your treasury. I must need to reword the question I am trying to ask, or I am failing to understand if you are answering what I am asking. Please allow me to try again.

My primary point of curiosity is the original MPPs that Japan has before the embargo. I understand that invading Batavia and resuming convoys will gain me MPPs. Are these MPPs a new source of income that is nonequivalent to the amount lost by the embargo? Or do these convoys, once activated, serve to specifically "undo" the exact amount of damage suffered by the embargo? I am wondering not how to get more MPPs once this starts, but more about the sources of MPPs. To structure into numbers....

1. Does the embargo have a time limit of how long it can continue to inflict damage onto you? Is it a pre-defined amount of damage over a pre-defined amount of turns? Or is it something that will get worse until I take the DEI? Potentially even taking me down to 0 MPP gain? I am trying to figure out the "source" of the MPPs that gets hurt by this event.
2. Is damage done by the embargo to the ORIGINAL MPPs permanent? Can it be 100% "recovered" by taking the DEI? Or are those original MPPs lost forever once lost?
3. Based on the answer to the first two, are the convoys from the DEI, post occupation, a "recovery" of the MPP source lost by the embargo, or is it a brand new source of MPPs?

The source of my confusion is that an oil embargo starts, MPPs reduce, and the game doesn't tell you exactly where it was lost from, how to fix it, if it can even be fixed, or if it is permanent and you're just supposed to source new MPPs from wherever you want. It is highly confusing, as a new player. I understand the historical context of what it is supposed to push me to do. I just don't understand how extreme the "push" is.

[GoldenTalon]

Originally posted by Resoula:

Originally posted by GoldenTalon:

No you need to DoW DEI and take Batavia. Then after a few turns harbor will be rebuilt and convoys restart. Normally you do this between Dec '41 and 'Feb '42 and you coordinate with attacks on Pearl, Midway, Philippines, New Guinea, Solomons, Wake, Hong Kong and possibly Burma. Wait for US Mobilization to hit ~80% to unleash attack and you need to launch your AVLs/AV and position in time along with CVs, etc.

Hey, thanks for your response. I wanted to say that I understand that the invasion is manual, and that getting the convoys helps get MPPs rolling back into your treasury. I must need to reword the question I am trying to ask, or I am failing to understand if you are answering what I am asking. Please allow me to try again.

My primary point of curiosity is the original MPPs that Japan has before the embargo. I understand that invading Batavia and resuming convoys will gain me MPPs. Are these MPPs a new source of income that is nonequivalent to the amount lost by the embargo? Or do these convoys, once activated, serve to specifically "undo" the exact amount of damage suffered by the embargo? I am wondering not how to get more MPPs once this starts, but more about the sources of MPPs. To structure into numbers....

1. Does the embargo have a time limit of how long it can continue to inflict damage onto you? Is it a pre-defined amount of damage over a pre-defined amount of turns? Or is it something that will get worse until I take the DEI? Potentially even taking me down to 0 MPP gain? I am trying to figure out the "source" of the MPPs that gets hurt by this event.
2. Is damage done by the embargo to the ORIGINAL MPPs permanent? Can it be 100% "recovered" by taking the DEI? Or are those original MPPs lost forever once lost?
3. Based on the answer to the first two, are the convoys from the DEI, post occupation, a "recovery" of the MPP source lost by the embargo, or is it a brand new source of MPPs?

The source of my confusion is that an oil embargo starts, MPPs reduce, and the game doesn't tell you exactly where it was lost from, how to fix it, if it can even be fixed, or if it is permanent and you're just supposed to source new MPPs from wherever you want. It is highly confusing, as a new player. I understand the historical context of what it is supposed to push me to do. I just don't understand how extreme the "push" is.

Simple answer: If you recapture DEI you get same amount of MPP as you lost from embargo - you should see that on end of turn MPP screen. Just try it out for yourself and see what happens.

[atshii]

Before the embargo starts, you can see the convoy from DEI being active. When embargo starts, it goes white and you lose the income.

In multiplayer you can lose DEI income also earlier, if Allied player spends money to DEI in diplomacy and takes the DEI percentage toward allied.

Originally posted by Resoula:

1. Does the embargo have a time limit of how long it can continue to inflict damage onto you? Is it a pre-defined amount of damage over a pre-defined amount of turns? Or is it something that will get worse until I take the DEI? Potentially even taking me down to 0 MPP gain? I am trying to figure out the "source" of the MPPs that gets hurt by this event.
2. Is damage done by the embargo to the ORIGINAL MPPs permanent? Can it be 100% "recovered" by taking the DEI? Or are those original MPPs lost forever once lost?
3. Based on the answer to the first two, are the convoys from the DEI, post occupation, a "recovery" of the MPP source lost by the embargo, or is it a brand new source of MPPs?

1. You just lose the income from the DEI convoy, it does not get worse. But the national morale hits keep on coming.

2. You lose the income as long as the convoy is down. You can't get those points back.

3. If I understand the question correctly, you are asking if you get the MPPs that were not sent to Japan later? Like if they keep the oil in storage and then send it all in a one go? No they don't. If embargo is in effect say April and May and you hit DEI in June, April and May points are gone forever. And depending how much damage the harbor gets, some more months also.

[Resoula]

Originally posted by atshii:

Before the embargo starts, you can see the convoy from DEI being active. When embargo starts, it goes white and you lose the income.

In multiplayer you can lose DEI income also earlier, if Allied player spends money to DEI in diplomacy and takes the DEI percentage toward allied.

Originally posted by Resoula:

1. Does the embargo have a time limit of how long it can continue to inflict damage onto you? Is it a pre-defined amount of damage over a pre-defined amount of turns? Or is it something that will get worse until I take the DEI? Potentially even taking me down to 0 MPP gain? I am trying to figure out the "source" of the MPPs that gets hurt by this event.
2. Is damage done by the embargo to the ORIGINAL MPPs permanent? Can it be 100% "recovered" by taking the DEI? Or are those original MPPs lost forever once lost?
3. Based on the answer to the first two, are the convoys from the DEI, post occupation, a "recovery" of the MPP source lost by the embargo, or is it a brand new source of MPPs?

1. You just lose the income from the DEI convoy, it does not get worse. But the national morale hits keep on coming.

2. You lose the income as long as the convoy is down. You can't get those points back.

3. If I understand the question correctly, you are asking if you get the MPPs that were not sent to Japan later? Like if they keep the oil in storage and then send it all in a one go? No they don't. If embargo is in effect say April and May and you hit DEI in June, April and May points are gone forever. And depending how much damage the harbor gets, some more months also.

That's exactly what I was looking for! Thanks so much! Take one of these award thingies, lol. One final question, what causes the end to the morale hits? Taking the DEI? Or America's entrance into the war?

[Bill Runacre]

The morale hits cease when the US enters the war.

[Resoula]

Originally posted by Bill Runacre:

The morale hits cease when the US enters the war.

Thank you, Bill!