This game costs the same as Hearts of Iron 4?

[twinny28]

Why the $50 something price tag for a game that has limited graphics? Hearts of Iron 4 is the most detailed WW2 game I have ever played and I doubt that this game comes close. Why then is it the same price? I was thinking of buying this game but it looks to pricey. Convince me to buy this please?

[Stonedog]

I own both and they are each very much the same but different. HoI 4 , which to me is not near as good as HoI II , and not much better if it is over HoI 3 , is a fantastic game in its own right . This game , to me atleast , is its equal as far as Grand strategy goes , but it plays with more of a political impact on it being possible where HoI 4 tends to have the detailed production unit and equipment wise as a advantage.

I can not convince you, nor anyone else my friend, as in the end its still what you think of it that will make that choice. All I can say , is this game is worth its price and very much a contemporary of HoI 4 . HoI 4 was not always the game it is today either, was not very well liked by most on launch, but good devs and smart decisions on the updates have made it what it is today. I see the same thing here as far as updates improving the game, and decision of that nature, as I did for HoI 4 .

[Stonedog]

I would add this, you will NOT have to buy a bunch of DLC to add features that should have been in game on launch, like HoI 4 did to us, that though is a by product of the publisher and their brand of marketing. They are well known for doing so, I like their games very much, just the fact of the matter is all.

[GoldenTalon]

I own both and it's an easy decision: SCWW2 any day. Why? Because the game actually works. The AI is actually intelligent unlike the braindead Hoi4 AI. If you like arcade style games with flashy graphics and lag then go with Hoi4. If you like a well crafted and designed game that has let's you replay WW2 as it might have gone than SCWW2 is the right choice. Bonus: no DLC needed!

[Mercutio]

^^ many games now days like to talk about all their features. The more features, the more AI programming you need. That is what is usually lacking. This game seems simple, I almost didn't get it thinking so. It is very good against the AI and even better MP.

[Fast Johnny]

Actually, I think one of the things that everyone here is missing about comparing the two is that I find this game way more enjoyable to play than any of the HOI in general, in other words, it's more, much more fun.

[Mercutio]

PBEM is fun, never know what a wily human will do and you can do a turn a day or more. Although I tend to make notes because you don't want to forget things with a good player!

[GoldenTalon]

Originally posted by Mercutio:

PBEM is fun, never know what a wily human will do and you can do a turn a day or more. Although I tend to make notes because you don't want to forget things with a good player!

MP is generally very challenging. It's well balance unlike Hoi4 where MP is a nightmare. SP is decent as well and the devs keep improving the AI with each release and then there are excellent mods as well like Fall Weiss II.

[Nats]

Its better than HoI4

[twinny28]

I ended up buying the game. Fun but no where near as in depth as HOI4. I am sorry Hex based map games are an old form of game so for them to be priced the same as more innovative games like HOI4 then it needs to have more options, speedier turn times, or some other hook to justify its price.

[Nats]

Originally posted by twinny28:

I ended up buying the game. Fun but no where near as in depth as HOI4. I am sorry Hex based map games are an old form of game so for them to be priced the same as more innovative games like HOI4 then it needs to have more options, speedier turn times, or some other hook to justify its price.

Lol this game is far more in depth than HoI4 and you will find the AI is miles ahead as well. How can a real time game that is generating its turns on the fly be more intelligent than a game that is spending several minutes generating the AI code. I admit it slows the turns down a little which takes some getting used to. But its a very difficult game.

I've never had any real challenge playing HoI4 but this game really challenges me. You have to really think about logistics and HQ placement, moving tired troops out of the front line etc in this game.

They are just two different games really. HoI4 is ok for a lighter, ahistoric, but more attractive game, where you dont want to think too much about your planes or ships, and just want to move around your stacks of units to push back a few enemy fronts etc.

But this game is far more strategic overall and not only that its main strength is you can play all the allies or all the axis which is really nice. I love the Chinese Japanese war for example but at times its really nice to be able to concentrate on the Pacific War, and also at other times to spend more time thinking about the Russian Front. So there is a lot going on to keep you interested.

[twinny28]

HOI4 is a realistic depiction of world wars with multiple focuses. Military industry, Science, make up of divisions, Assigning units to fronts, battle planning, assigning generals to armies, leveling up generals, air war (air superiority, strategic bombing, nuclear weapons, ground support, naval aviation, transport, jet powered aircraft), Naval warfare, upgrading individual ship designs, mine warfare, torpedo technology, convoy protection/attacking, anti - submarine warfare, mission planning, amphibious operations.

Individual country focuses of this time period ie Australia's wartime focuses. From these focuses you can be democratic, communist, fascist, Greater Asian Co Prosperity Sphere etc etc. The replay ability is endless. Maybe I should go communist Australia, or Australia splits from the Commonwealth Empire?

Hex combat is not complicated.

[Fast Johnny]

I want to explore the idea of the poor old simple hex, it never gets it's due. Hexes are only how the battle map is divided up in regards to tactical movement. Now, I ask, how does the mere use of hexes in movement create an old game that is too simple? Is the hex a sort of an aging drug, that makes a game old?

See, I'm not getting where the idea of a hex based movement makes a game simple and old. But what I really don't understand here, is that the combat on a strategic, operational and tactical level in this 'old and simple' hex game seems to me to be a lot more involved than the actual combat in HOI series games. What I remember in HOI is endless series of lists that bore the living daylights out of me, with little in the way of actually what you do with the armies and units you raise and equip.

Ehh, whatever. If micro managing your torpedoes on a list page is more fun and in depth than micro managing the movement and decisions of all the units on the whole of the Eastern Front, then so be it.

[Nats]

Originally posted by twinny28:

HOI4 is a realistic depiction of world wars with multiple focuses. Military industry, Science, make up of divisions, Assigning units to fronts, battle planning, assigning generals to armies, leveling up generals, air war (air superiority, strategic bombing, nuclear weapons, ground support, naval aviation, transport, jet powered aircraft), Naval warfare, upgrading individual ship designs, mine warfare, torpedo technology, convoy protection/attacking, anti - submarine warfare, mission planning, amphibious operations.

Individual country focuses of this time period ie Australia's wartime focuses. From these focuses you can be democratic, communist, fascist, Greater Asian Co Prosperity Sphere etc etc. The replay ability is endless. Maybe I should go communist Australia, or Australia splits from the Commonwealth Empire?

Hex combat is not complicated.

Most of the features in that list though are mediocre features that actually mean very little when it comes down to it. The game comes down to moving around your armies and fighting other armies whilst having to keep tabs on a really annoying production system. The diplomacy means nothing really. The naval warfare and air warfare are both very simplistic overview systems. The focus trees mean little because you normally are just choosing what order to do them, you generally do them all anyway eventually and really come down to usually two alternative choices for your country to follow.

Like all Paradox games the gameplay is actually very simplistic but they put in loads and loads of padding features to try to hide that. But when you analyse the combat alone its really simple and often you cannot enjoy the game because of the stupid AI which never acts reasonably intelligently. So there is no challenge, only a false appearance of a challenge created by all the extra padding features that mean very little to the flow of the actual gameplay you are interested in which is the combat.

This game though has most of those features as well but in this game that are all impact on the gameplay and are user controllable. They arent just padding. Whereas things like production and development and treated really simply to not take the player away from the enjoyment of the strategic combat.

Having said that I do enjoy both games and I have played HoI4 more than this game to date (I have had HoI4 longer though), but I end up getting bored with HoI4 and its lack of a decent challenge. It looks great but there is little actual substance there. I keep going back to it hoping I am missing something but I have to say I think HoI2 and 3 were much better games.

[GoldenTalon]

Originally posted by twinny28:

I ended up buying the game. Fun but no where near as in depth as HOI4. I am sorry Hex based map games are an old form of game so for them to be priced the same as more innovative games like HOI4 then it needs to have more options, speedier turn times, or some other hook to justify its price.

Hey OP - I have HOI4 as find it to be broken and laggy. The AI can't build units, place them where it makes sense, defend, invade, etc. In short it's braindead. Also the lag past early '40s is awful. In terms of being a WW2 game it's really not. It's more a fantasy alt-history/sandbox. For example, the US Civil war is a part of Hoi4 - what does that have to do with WW2?

SC Waw and WiE are really WW2 games but allow the player to take reasonable decision to change the course of the conflict. For example, you can try Sea Lion or not have the Italians attack Greece, etc. The AI is good and MP is actually fun unlike Hoi4,

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by twinny28:

I ended up buying the game. Fun but no where near as in depth as HOI4. I am sorry Hex based map games are an old form of game so for them to be priced the same as more innovative games like HOI4 then it needs to have more options, speedier turn times, or some other hook to justify its price.

Some folks are a little salty about HOI4. I agree with your assessment. It is nowhere near as deep as HOI4. I can't see how anyone could seriously say that it is either as the developer didn't intend for his game to be as complex as that but somewhere between a serious wargame like World in Flames (played that) and a beer and pretzels wargame like Afrika Korps (played that too).

Having said that, this is a Turn Based game and the AI has considerable time to make its moves and a damned fine job it does of it too. HOI4 is a Real Time Strategy game and the AI is simultaneously making all the decisions for every faction in the world. It's also an IGoUGo game which means that I play my turn and my opponent makes his turn which helps to improve the quality of the AI opponent. This game wins hands down in that respect

If you're an old time Avalon Hill wargamer, this game is closer to Hitler's War than Advanced Third Reich and that's why I love it. I can play the whole war in a few sessions and there are plenty of real strategic decisions to make.

As an old board wargamer, I love hex-based wargames. If you are serious about wargames, I'd invite you to look at Gary Grigsby's War in the East (and West if you like the former). Hex based but it doesn't get any better than that for a serious wargamer. The price is high because it's not going to sell nearly as many copies as HOI4 and the developers have crafted an AI which must have cost them a lot of resources to develop.

Of course, there's also Command Ops 2 which is free, and Command Modern Naval Air Operations to consider as well and they're not hex based at all.