What do you do for a challenge?

[termah71]

I got on Steam to buy this game, and have been playing hours a week for quite some time. I am constantly impressed by Justin's modifications and additions. I had some thoughts, and would hope for others to respond, and a few suggestions.

In it's current iteration, I think I have the game pretty well down. It is still my favorite game, but, except for the daily challenge (thanks for that Rogue Gargoyle Justin!) I have the meters maxed on all characters. What I am currently doing is trying to get my best for each class below 30 minutes. I am there with 5 classes, and the rest are in the low thirties. So for now, after the daily challenge, I just try and get a lower time with my current slowest character. Currently, that's Ice mage. Speed runs are fun and a little different than the comprehensive dungeon cleansing of a daily challenge, and flight is a must to safely drop the last levels.

I like the weapon maximums; it was getting pretty silly with no cap, and makes you really conserve those enchantment scrolls for your "final" weapon or staff. The cap of +3 seems fair (I remember toasting all monsters with a +5 or 6 storm chapper before the nerf) but it almost completely devalues rings of slaying, archery. Unless I get one early with a rogue or Duelist, or don't have anything better for a tank (in the case of ring of archery) they are a waste. Maybe consider making their effect bust the maximum? They wouldn't break the game, but would bring real value.

I think the balance of mana regeneration is pretty good. It was too quick before the recent nerf. I was thinking of ways to add to the casters without adding complication or blowing up the game and I'm struggling. I like where they are at now, and think all of them are playable. The only thing I could come up with would be to give the enchanter the ability to give a permanent plus one to any item, at the cost of a strength/Dex/Int point. Kind of like in 1st Ed AD&D high level casters could enchant, but at the cost of a point of Constitution.

Keep on adding the special characters and interesting side dungeons. Replayability is amazing. If you wanted to make the game have public challenges, maybe allow for entering a key a la minecraft. That way any player with an updated version could enter the same string and play the same dungeon with the same race and class character. It would be a fun way to compete with other players.

Last suggestion, and this is drawn from my current obsession of getting all my classes under 30 minutes. Add an "under 30 minutes" achievement next to the 60 and 45. It's absolutely doable. Personally, I think an Elf Ranger is the (current) most broken character/race. The only reason I lose with a ranger is because I am trying to max my speed through the dungeon. No need to nerf them though ;-)

Anyway, LMK your thoughts.

[Scar]

I do a lot of different things for a challenge: A fun one was double ring of learning gargoyle duelist. For more of a challenge, I try things like fists only, pacifist, or 1 HP. This is a full list: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnRManGYbqfh3rMoqnSxZa_ePY0rtRRnA If you have any suggestions for more challenges I am always interested!

Yeah, speed runs are great fun, very different from full clearing. I usually don't find flight in speed runs, still gotta jump in those pits if you want that super fast time.

I'm not the biggest fan of the dmg cap on weapons. In the patch before this weapons did almost nothing so I understand why it was changed. Things like weapon mastery, and as you mentioned, rings of slaying etc need to be fixed. Returning the guaranteed well of wishing to either the library or the end of a SD would also be nice. (Or a suggestion from the discord, add a table of Transmogrify that upgrades an item 1 tier to the end of the SD)

Casters do seem to be in a reasonable place, but something that is not is Int. It really needs a major buff to make it useful to non-casters. Some form of cooldown reduction could be pretty useful.

If you check out the discord https://discord.gg/dhw4akA I made a mod that records the game seed and lets you enter a seed to play. I haven't tested them on the latest version but they should still work.

Agreed, Elf Ranger is definitely the most broken race/class. Probably only duelist could have competed (before lunge got nerfed), and that was a long time ago.

Still plenty of things that need a bit of balancing or tweaking: Speed Points are OP and stacking stealth makes you practically invisible to name a few.

[termah71]

I will definitely check that out. Only thing I would disagree with is INT.

Getting Confusion (from a chest of learning or whatever they're called) is always the top pick, and getting to the point where you can upgrade it is OP.

But other than that, no reason to pump. Maybe resist torment/confusion/charm as an innate tied to INT?

I have never modified the game to allow myself to select items, HP, but I was thinking about the 1 hop. Getting around the mushroom cloud guys seems impossible

[Scar]

Speed points, knockback, or manouvering enemies into terrain is key.

[termah71]

I just did a 20:37 with an unmodified Elf Ranger. I KNOW there were 37 seconds of me screwing around in the Merchant's stores instead of just charging through.

Got super lucky and pulled the Sewers as my side tunnel and the Spider King for the final boss before Yendor. Also got a ring of flight very early.

LOL. Hi, my name is Terry and I'm an addict

[Scar]

I haven't done much pure speedrunning in the last few patches due to something called the DT 6 pit. Certain layouts of dark temple F6 have a pit, letting you completely skip the SD. Not getting it instantly kills the majority of runs aiming for a fast time.

[Del_Duio]

+3 on weapon maximums is good, you don't want an unlimited option as it'd discourage players from trying new weapons out I feel.

I just put a thread up suggesting that some of the inanimate objects could be interacted with (ex. skeleton corpses in jails) with a chance to find items on them. It'd have to be a low chance, otherwise they'd just be fancy chests.

I've played this since day 1 on Steam and still haven't won it yet. I'm sticking with Human Warrior until I do, then will branch out into other class combos. This is easily one of my favorite roguelikes to date, and it keeps getting better all the time.

EDIT: Have to add I am really disliking the dungeon areas where you're required to take floor damage in order to progress. I just made it through 4 levels of The Core with 8 max speed points and still was taking a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of damage just to make it through the place. Worse, when I finally got to the Efreeti Lord I had almost no HP left and his buddies easily killed me. My run didn't feature any levitation potions or items and my 3 charge Wand of Blinking had long run out.

Kind of sucks, to be honest. My guy was doing awesome too.

[Scar]

Here is some human warrior gameplay: https://youtu.be/Rx2j98lmdRU

Hmm, I don't really know how bad the core is, I almost never go to the 1st SD.

[Del_Duio]

Hey buddy, you might know: I'm trying to fight the Crystal Archer with a Ranger who's only using a bow for a weapon (no melee weapon at all). All of my arrows are reflecting off of him and so did the one fireball staff I tried to use which nearly killed me. I'm hitting him for what says 1 damage like a million times but his HP remains at 86 or w/e the whole time.

Do you need to have a stronger melee weapon to even injure him or is he recovering 1 HP per round that's not displayed via green texts and etc? If it says I'm hitting him for 1 damage w/ red text that's what should be happening but it's not.

BTW Ranger is super OP so far: I have 65% evasion and only level 6 (!) Lucked out and got a Goblin Swift Bow which was enchanted to +1 for tons of extra evasion.

EDIT: I ended up using my scroll of Domination and now I have a mini-boss companion in tow lol. Let's see how well this goes.

EDIT #2: Scratch that. Apparently evade doesn't work vs. fire worm projectiles? Arghhhhh!

[Scar]

Bosses have super high natural regen, that doesn't show as green text (no natural regen shows as green text). So he is taking 1 dmg but healing with just his base regen immediately.

You can see if an enemy has protection in the info box on the right when you hover over them. Things like statues and clockwork enemies, chaos orc knights etc have some, which is why crits are so important against them.

Fireball can work against reflective enemies - aim it on a tile next to them so it doesn't get reflected.

[termah71]

Originally posted by Del_Duio:

EDIT: Have to add I am really disliking the dungeon areas where you're required to take floor damage in order to progress. I just made it through 4 levels of The Core with 8 max speed points and still was taking a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of damage just to make it through the place. Worse, when I finally got to the Efreeti Lord I had almost no HP left and his buddies easily killed me. My run didn't feature any levitation potions or items and my 3 charge Wand of Blinking had long run out.

Unless I'm mistaken there is a corner you can hide around and get him into range on that level. Getting a bow or even a staff is a must for that character.

[termah71]

Originally posted by Del_Duio:

EDIT: I ended up using my scroll of Domination and now I have a mini-boss companion in tow lol. Let's see how well this goes.

EDIT #2: Scratch that. Apparently evade doesn't work vs. fire worm projectiles? Arghhhhh!

Yeah, I just run to the stairs unless I have a decent weapon and a corner to hide around.

Careful with him as an NPC! He will just shoot those mega bolts anywhere!

[termah71]

Update, finally broke twenty minutes on a speed run.

Elf Ranger, got ring of flight and the heartwood bow with max enchantment before level 9, and that let me coast through the Fire pits and just zipped around the lava killing the worm

Pit on level 6, but not pits for level 1 and 2, just guessed lucky and used my speed points.

Thought I was screwed in Yendor 4. TWO crystal golems. Lured them around to the bottom of the board then blinked/speed point to the goblet

[Del_Duio]

Is the Heartwood bow the one that spawns vines on hit? I had one before but I thought the vines would snare enemies but it didn't.