Supreme Commander newbie question

[urbanriot]

It took me about an hour and a half to beat the first mission and it felt more like a tedious grind than an enjoyable 'build your army and attack' kind of mission, it's like I'm doing something wrong with base defense creep and slow building of vehicles that get immediately destroyed upon attack.

Are you supposed to create a giant attack force or... ?

As someone who played all the Starcrafts, Red Alerts, etc., I feel like it shouldn't take me so long to beat the first mission of a game...

Please advise!

[✩ Ellectroma ッ]

What you want to do is set up a proper economy, and then a production of spam (spam is t1 and t2 units that overwhelm the battlefied) while producing a couple of T3 units to help with the firepower.

You have to have a balance between your firepower and your unit number. More units = better map control

However, you don't want to only use t1 and t2, since they'll get killed instantly. You want to throw some T3 into the mix to deal the killing blows.

Tbh, in late game, the only t1 unit in your army should be t1 arty. Everything else t2/t3.

[urbanriot]

It takes sooo long to produce units so I'm finding myself frustrated at the amount of time the map takes to conquer. Certainly the maps are grander than those found in the aforementioned games but it seems to take so long to get anywhere, take out a few enemy targets, build another giant army, wait for it to get all the way across the map, take out a few targets, etc., etc...

I feel like I'm missing a strategy...

Maybe things will change in a few maps I'm just initially frustrated.

[✩ Ellectroma ッ]

Originally posted by urbanriot:

It takes sooo long to produce units so I'm finding myself frustrated at the amount of time the map takes to conquer. Certainly the maps are grander than those found in the aforementioned games but it seems to take so long to get anywhere, take out a few enemy targets, build another giant army, wait for it to get all the way across the map, take out a few targets, etc., etc...

I feel like I'm missing a strategy...

Maybe things will change in a few maps I'm just initially frustrated.

Well :P maybe I should have mentioned that you can SPEED up the building time and production:

For a building, use 1 engineer to start a building, and then select extra engineers and right click with them on the building. That's called assisting.

For production of units, select the engineers you want to use as support, and right click with them on the factory you wish to assist.

This, of course, uses more resources, but reduces build times, scaling with each engineer added.

Feel free to add me/pm me for more info

[urbanriot]

Wait a second... engineers can speed up building? So you could assign an engineer to every factory you're pumping out units? This might be a literal game changer. Thanks, I'll give this a shot tomorrow or the day after... now I'm looking forward to playing again.

[glythe]

So there's a couple things to note here.

1. Are you using adjacency? The short version is try builing a factory where one of the corners of that factory is squarely touching the mass extractor (mex). The result is that you get a cost reduction for everything you do with that factory. If you have power generators touching the factory that will reduce the power that the factory consumes.

At some point you also want to put mass storage adjacent to the mex. One side touches the factory so you can only put 3 mass storage adjacent to the mex. Instead of getting 40% more output per mex you will only get 30% more output.

http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/Adjacency_bonus

2. Engineers can assist each other. You can control the "master" engineer and all the assistants will build. But if you use too many they can get in the way.... so if you are doing a massive t2 building project with say 10 engineers you might double click them all and have them all build the same stuff (this makes them get out of the way of each other better).

3. Have you tried a ghetto gunship?

http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/Ghetto_Gunship

With the UEF or Cybran faction you can load t1 bots into a t1 transport. The bots shoot down from the transport (cant pick the targets). Time this correctly and the enemy has no aa turrets. You can either cripple his economy or kill his commander (possibly both).

4. If you don't have to keep your commander alive (not sure very relative to the campaign) you can try a com bomb. Say you wounded the enemy commander and then he goes to hide in his base. Did you know commanders are volatile on death? Send your commander over in a T2 air transport. When your commander blows up it will cause a chain reaction to blow up the enemy commander. By sacrificing your 'queen' you have effectively nuked the enemy twice.

5. Make some tier 3 units as the front wave and have tier 2/1 units behind them. Personally I almost never make t1 after I have moved to T2 with the exception of AA which can be relative even late tier (if massed). The cybran t1 "tank" can heal or assist other units and those are quite strong in a group assisting an engineer.

[urbanriot]

Thanks folks, this is really useful information...

1. Concerning adjecency, I knew about power but I didn't realize the same could happen with extractors, that's cool thanks! Cash usually isn't my problem though although maybe it should be if I build more troops!

2. Can engineers be set to auto heal like in other RTS games?

3. I always keep my commander safe, maybe I should use him more.

4. Do base defenses need to be anywhere near power?

5. Do base defenses benefit from walls in any way? I seem to have them entirely destroyed by air attacks.

[glythe]

1. The thing about adjacency is that using it saves a ton on resources. You will notice this the most when you research t2/t3 upgrades. Getting those out sooner (due to less drain/choke) is huge.

2. Engineers can be set to patrol around buildings.

3. When I play this game I play against multiple enemy AI. On a medium/small map you can kill one close enemy commander with 3 turrets+ your commander. You will get a feel for how to do this and the timing required if you try it enough. Your commander wins the fight (after the enemy commander blows up) with something like 40% health.

Essentially your commander is "safe" until t2 units come out. Ships can kill him however if you are not careful (either subs or frigates). If you have a healthy power grid you can kill a flood of t1 units with overcharge. Did I mention overcharge blows up a building outright?

Play aggressive with your commander until it gets dangerous to do so. Remember all that talk about adjacency? I can have my commander be walking within the first few mintues of a game and have a better economy than the AI because I have better adjacency. Then I kill a commander and steal his mex and secure the location (build a new factory there). Then I have literally double the enemy economy (but there are still 4 enemies left).

4. I believe only artillery benefits from power. My standard defense complex is 2x t2 guns, 2x t2 AA, 2x t2 tac missile defense, shield generator, power generator, 3x artillery. I'll get you a picture of this. You can use this complex usually to kill 1-2 enemies if you rush a t2 engineer (I do this from air factory).

5. You obviously are not using enough t1 aa land units. Compare price of that unit vs aa defense.

For the same price you can make a t1 "maginot" line of like 5 turrets that can be guarded vs t1 by 2-3 t1 aa land units (go ahead and put at least one t1 air turret nearby).


I will play a game to see if I can get you some screenshots. Last time I played a game and then realized too late f12 is a button in SC so steam didnt take screenshots.


Also I forgot to sub to this thread, and I did that just now.

Feel free to ask more questions (anyone).

[glythe]

Here are some pics

Killing first commander with t1 turret. Notice my economy is better than everyone else's and my commander has been out of my base for almost 5 minutes.

http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/Glythe/media/Supreme%20Commander%20Screenshot%202018.07.15%20-%2010.05.37.26.png.html

Build order screenshot. Note this was the wrong layout. I remembered this later... on this map you need to build the power generators on the top and east side. Why? So when you build T2 you have room for that power generator.

http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/Glythe/media/Supreme%20Commander%20Screenshot%202018.07.15%20-%2009.17.43.88.png.html

Deluxe T2 defense outpost (this was used to kill one of the commanders).

http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/Glythe/media/Supreme%20Commander%20Screenshot%202018.07.15%20-%2011.06.08.23.png.html

Exciting shot of 2 enemy commanders bowing up at once (not planned)

http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/Glythe/media/Supreme%20Commander%20Screenshot%202018.07.15%20-%2011.05.51.33.png.html

[urbanriot]

Thanks for taking the time to advise me, I definitely looked forward to playing again and when I did I employed a few of your pointers however since I'm closer to the start of the game I haven't had the opportunity to try everything you'd suggested.

I find that engineers will auto heal but only if you have them on a patrol as you inferred, but their range is short so it seems almost useless to work around healing your troops.

I think as I play more it will start to become second nature.

[glythe]

No problem. I always find the small niche games tend to have the best communities, and I like to be helpful to anyone who shows an interest in this game. I still say this is the best rts ever made.

Something to be aware.... many of the campain elements can be cheesed. Later missions are open ended in that it waits for you to do X then the map advances. I recall one of the missions will ltiterally allow you to build a Mavor if you want, then do the objective.

The narrator says something "oh no" esque but it literally doesnt matter because you have a Mavor (or maybe 10x tier III gunships).


If I didn't say it specifically..... build order matters. That is why I made a screenshot for you of my commander with the things I made in what order. Every map is different for what you build first with engineers. Some maps you need to rush an engineer this way (while the commander goes the other way). But 99% of the time my second engineer builds the power grid. Later.... one of the engineers I build will be set to assist him.

Basically I build up my energy so I can rush a tier 2 mex. Once you have one, rush the second, then the third. Play , play and play some more; you will get the feel of when. The AI score can tell you when he has teched up to higher tier mex (if his score is above yours on a skirmish).

At some point your energy will start to be wasted. You plan for this and build an energy storage relatively early. It saves a lot of wasted energy long term. Dont build radar until you need it. That costs a ton of energy. T1 land scouts have free radar and are stupid cheap to produce.

One of the keys to this game is trying to prevent or minimize economy stall (going negative on either resource). Power is always easy to fix unless you are insanely negative... and that wont happen unless you are like oops I built t3 mex and didnt upgrade to t3 power grid. If you are doing the noob thing of building like 4-5 turrets at once that will choke your power grid.

Early game use engineers to patrol to reclaim mass. Some maps you use 1-2 and others you use 5-6 engineers. Make sure if you do this that the engineers are not running an empty loop after a few minutes (check on them).

Overall I find air units too easy to kill with low tier aa so I tend not to use tier 1 air units (other than transports / and the rare Ghetto gunship) . Not having a refueling point for your air wing is sily anyway (which is a tier 2 building).

another note: In vanilla sup com the mex are worth more mass. In the expansion (forged alliance) they nerfed mex a bit to make expansion more rewarding.

[urbanriot]

Yea, I noticed what you say about 'cheesed' missions where avoiding the trigger event will allow you to amass a force or do whatever else you want until you want to move forward.

[glythe]

Honestly I don't remember the campaign but I remember I lost my save at one point and I was playing it again.

Oh this mission? Ok hold on for 40 minutes... I'm gonna crank out some super weapons.

Ever try playing skirmish vs the AI?

[urbanriot]

Campaign is eats so much of my time that I don't know if I could squeeze in skirmish haha!

I'm now effectively using engineers thanks to your tips, using them to juice manufacturing is great and healing on patrol is working well too although i think healing is mostly a waste of time outside of the commander.

[glythe]

Healing the commander who heals for free over time (unless they disabled that in campaign... I forget)

Why? Often I let my commander fight down to yellow health and then pull him back. Unless the unit is really important just let it fight to the death.

planes gunships scouts artillery engineers tanks (defending a front line position you want to secure with say turrets). They are all way more vital to keep alive than other things at least for me.

[✩ Ellectroma ッ]

You can grab the nano repair upgrade on your commander to boost it's hp regen