how do i know how much food/water production I need?

[snuggleform]

In frostpunk I could read the resource screen and it would estimate the amount of consumption/production per resource per day, and it was easy to understand. In this game I have absolutely no clue what to do except click around and look for a graph and even then I can't tell how many structures/settlers I truly need, like do I need 2 cisterns? 3? 4? For my given population? Do I need more wells? I have no idea.

[beebopper]

There is no magic number.. numbers change depending on the size of your colony.. depending on the variables.. eg sand storms and repairs.. droughts / disease etc.. just to name a few.

This game is not like others.. efficiency is not really possible other than distance in early game.

But the best advice I can give is to build infrastructure first and then build cabins to fill the positions. (slowly)

hope that helps :)

[snuggleform]

I know it depends on size of colony, but can someone describe more precisely than that? If I have 1 farmer working on a 16x16 and let's assume there are no droughts on cabbage, how much population can he sustain? When do I need to add a second farmer? I need more precise answers than "it depends."

[beebopper]

No problem :) goodluck

[snuggleform]

As I've played more I think it's just by design that the game doesn't throw one easy to read number at you. Interestingly, you can see water consumption if you click on the resource tab and it lists water/food, and if you hover over water "turnover" you will see the consumption/production as it changes. But this number fluctuates quite a bit quite rapidly.

I think the way you're supposed to play it is sort of "by ear" or adaptively, you want 1-2 cisterns early on to have large maximum, and you keep your eye loosely on how you do over time, if you are capped obviously you're fine and if you're way under max then it's time to work harder on water. Same with food. That's how I've been approaching things lately - make sure I can stockpile roughly 10k water and 10k food, run about 5 water carriers and 1 on each type of food I have available, and as the pop grows and if it dips to 1-2 k then I really need to put in some effort right now to correct it.

[snuggleform]

You know the more I play this game the more I really don't like that it doesn't show you expected production and consumption per day. I know there are a lot of factors going into it but there still should be some simple number showing you a roughly good idea of what to expect. I feel like I'm going to have to make a job and make some spreadsheets to figure out how much a settler eats/drinks per day and how much something simple like a jetty produces per day per 1 carrier. I don't want to be forced to do a lot of recording to figure this stuff out though then it just feels like a job.

[snuggleform]

One simple calculation I need to know is how much food/water to store for an upcoming drought, and probably 1 day beyond that in case a raider hits at a bad time. The problem is if I just load a game and have say 144 pop, I have absolutely no clue how much food/water I need to store for 2 days. The game gives no indication of this. It's just guesswork, and it's bad design. The graphs don't really help with this at least not in an intuitive way.

[Ele]

If you think that's frustrating, pay close attention to your charts. I was stymied as to why my 700 pop was suddenly struggling with food, when it had gone for over 20 seasons with zero problems. As I started watching my food production chart I noticed that the season BEFORE a drought hits, my food production would be cut in half. Even though every orchard and field was fully irrigated, electrified, and oodles of water. Then, it takes 3 seasons to get the food production back to where it was at it's peak, which only lasts for one season, then it starts to drop off again before the drought. The game is very cyclical so it's easy to spot the trends. And no, I had no issues anywhere, tools were fine, protective gear good, medicine peachy. Just this unexplicable drop of production of food before and after a drought.

[snuggleform]

The charts are useless as I hinted at. For example I was looking at a graph of my water consumption over time. It's just about useless since it doesn't tell you on the same graph, the population size as it changes over time, nor how many people you actually dedicated to water gathering at any given time either. So what does it mean if there's a period where consumption outpaced demand? It's impossible to tell from such a useless graph - it could be your population grew a lot, or it could be you didn't have enough gatherers, you're simply left guessing all the time.

Why would it kill the developers to put in some kind of estimated drain per day and gain per day?

In order to manage my population size I kinda have to know how much I can support. I just don't know how much population let's say 10 water carriers can support. I know it can be complicated based on type of water collection, distance/positioning and stuff but it's insanely frustrating not having much of any idea at all. Can I expect 25% of population on water to be enough? 30%? 35%? There has to be a generally good number and you can adjust around it, but what is it? What about food?

[beebopper]

ok..
Your trying to find efficiency in the game.. your throwing effort after foolishness...
you want the game to play your way.. the way other games like factorio and the like play... but as I stated before... this game is the complete opposite.

Every action that is done has a consequence or a downside if you will. give up your search for efficiency that just does not exist.

but a simple search would give you some answers.. well as close to the answers that you are looking for.. but what you do not want to accept is that this game has alot of "depends" mechanics involved to make you think.. how to survive it.. no one can give you concrete numbers.. the game is dynamic that way...

Once you stop beating your head against a brick wall regarding efficiency that exist in other games and play this game to it's own mechanics.. then you will prosper.

Try this guide by ellacharmed in the guides section that shows alot of base figures that will give you a starting point (spreadsheet part).

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2158667232

and this is just one way you can go and shows what's possible:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/933820/discussions/0/3191363817358641959/

[snuggleform]

Originally posted by beebopper:

ok..
Your trying to find efficiency in the game.. your throwing effort after foolishness...
you want the game to play your way.. the way other games like factorio and the like play... but as I stated before... this game is the complete opposite.

Every action that is done has a consequence or a downside if you will. give up your search for efficiency that just does not exist.

but a simple search would give you some answers.. well as close to the answers that you are looking for.. but what you do not want to accept is that this game has alot of "depends" mechanics involved to make you think.. how to survive it.. no one can give you concrete numbers.. the game is dynamic that way...

Once you stop beating your head against a brick wall regarding efficiency that exist in other games and play this game to it's own mechanics.. then you will prosper.

Try this guide by ellacharmed in the guides section that shows alot of base figures that will give you a starting point (spreadsheet part).

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2158667232

and this is just one way you can go and shows what's possible:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/933820/discussions/0/3191363817358641959/

numbers do matter though. You don't need to put 5 people on water carriers right at the beginning do you? But what is enough? 2? 3? 4?How do you know when to assign more?

[beebopper]

don't you? it all depends on the situation.. one game may be upto 10.. 5 mins later when the cistern is full.. only 1-2 are required.. you have to constantly assess and make changes accordingly.. as I've said there are no magic numbers. It's dynamic.

[snuggleform]

no, you don't need 5 water carriers right at the start, I watched a guy on hardest settings he only used 2 or 3 at the start. The problem is, how am I supposed to know that except to make this game a job and study it like a science project? Would it kill the developers to give more reasonable assessment tools regarding production/consumption? I'm not saying the tools have to be perfect but they have to be better than essentially nothing that is provided.

[Lynn]

I think it's possible that watching other people play is what is throwing you off. As @beebopper said, there are different variables that might cause you to do things differently, depending on the current circumstances. For example, if you have a drought coming, you will want to stockpile water, in order to offset that. You would put many people on water carrying, then move them off of it, and into other professions as the drought comes in, because there is a dire need for other things. It is a 'community' effort, for the survival of the settlement. It seems to me, that it is you that wants to make a science project out of it, by wanting to know PRECISELY what number to place, and WHEN, in some sort of rigid fashion. Try to work with getting a 'sense' of what will be needed, as it plays out, and much of that comes from experience...not as a set protocol. In my view, that is where the fun is in this game.

[snuggleform]

No watching other people isn't throwing me off, what's throwing me off is playing the game and being utterly confused, which then leads me to investigate through asking questions and watching videos.

Sure if a drought is coming what do you mean by "put many people?" That is the crux - I need a specific number. What is the correct ratio? What if I have 20 adults? 35? How do I calculate? Assuming I put a jetty right next to a cistern?

[Lynn]

Well....if you were in this situation, how would you know how many people?? You would weigh your other needs, and put as many people as you can, in order to avoid a certain death by dehydration. Water is a biggie. You would put as many as you can on the task. It is difficult, because they have many crucial needs, but you have to get a sense of your priorities. It is survival. They will work it out (or not). Personally, I think you are overthinking it. It's not that difficult. But you're entitled to your views.