Markets and my hassle with logistics

[Dulosis]

Markets got a working circle, from where they should gather materials and resources. Thats kind of a problem, at least for me. I got 2 markets. One in my "old town center" and one a little bit outside with new living quarters for a lots of people and some food production. The market in the center can gather everything from just around the corner. Food, masks, scrap, wood, everything is just produced right beside him. The second market has not the range to include the center and the new food production right beside him. That leads to following problem: The market in the center is packed up with stuff, while the other market can either gather the food next to him, or got his working circle in the middle of the old town center, but then he ignores the food production just litteraly a few steps beside him.

I would be nice, if you could set a mode "gather from nearest available stock", so the market fetches his food from the near production and get everything else from the town center. Right now i have to set up refineries, scrapyards, tool production and everything else in his corner, so he can gather everything he needs in his working circle. So i just have to set up a complete new town in this way, but just wanted the new food production up his side. Or are they leaving their working circle, if there is something not available in their circle?

Another problem is, that the first market is fetching anything he can, as example most of the scrap, so i can't just build a new tool factory near the other market and let it fetch the needed scrap there, as the other market got barely any scrap, the first market left over in the warehouses. I just can enable, or disable storaging of scrap, but can't set a maximum amount of each resource for a specific market, so he won't collect everything of one resource and nearly left anything over for the others.

[Zourin]

If you need Center-to-Center transportation, why not use a 2nd market with its focus set to another market zone. One for local, one for imports?

[Dulosis]

Originally posted by Zourin:

If you need Center-to-Center transportation, why not use a 2nd market with its focus set to another market zone. One for local, one for imports?

I don't know, if you i got you right on this point? You mean, i should build another market next to another one? So i have 2 markets with different working circles? I don't think that this will solve my problem, as i build future new expansions i have to build several markets for each resource production zone i have. So if i build a new scrapyard and mask production expansion to my town i need at least 2 more markets just to fetch the new products of this expansion and the rest of the center. If i want to include the second food production i need a third market? And how to include my market in the town center to fetch resources from the town expansions? Working circles for market doesn't seem to be usable at all, if you are going to build up a bigger town, with different sections of production.

[=NickFury=]

Originally posted by Dulosis:

The market in the center is packed up with stuff, while the other market can either gather the food next to him, or got his working circle in the middle of the old town center, but then he ignores the food production just litteraly a few steps beside him.

Fundamentally, I don't fully get why you need the second market in the first place. If the food production is so far away that you need it to make the stuff accessible, then, are we to understand that you let your settlement grow huge to solve a food production issue? Not sure if you're not asking to make a bad approach viable here? If your creating new issues with access to said food, then it's quite possible that your layout is the real problem and not the markets. If you, f.i. built this big because you wanted to reach a lake to supply your irrigators, you might want to consider using wells instead and spreading your farms out across your settlement to supply people more efficiently. Lots of smaller sources of food (i.e. a single irrigation plot) are definitely better in Endzone than a huge farming district on one side of your village.

Originally posted by Dulosis:

Or are they leaving their working circle, if there is something not available in their circle?

I don't think you can remotely hope for that when your logisticians already have plenty of stuff to pick up in their work area. They certainly won't discriminate and run the extra mile for one particular ressource if there's other stuff waiting to be picked up nearby.

Originally posted by Dulosis:

Another problem is, that the first market is fetching anything he can, as example most of the scrap[...]

I'm sure the devs are open-minded about this and might consider adding a more tuneable system to storages in the future, like a storage limit for individual ressources. In general, it's equally arguable that your issue really is rather at the bottom of your supply chain: if you're not getting enough scrap in for both your production and the market, then you're not producing enough for a setup where both share access to that ressource from the same storage.

[Gentlymad | Kizzle]

TL;DR

Thanks for the feedback and everyone trying to help here! One thing I want to mention is, that we are very much wanting to rework the market to some point or enable him with more tools, as quite some people seem to either misunderstand how it works, how to use it right or really just causing problems.
As far as the market goes I am personally not aware of all mechanics around it, which is way I need to ask the responsible Devs first for feedback here.
Nonetheless we are sorry if this building causes trouble! :D

[Asmodan]

I played around a bit with the Market but i didn't get how they should work.

Originally posted by Dulosis:

... Working circles for market doesn't seem to be usable at all, if you are going to build up a bigger town, with different sections of production.

This is my Problem. The Circle is too small and from my observation the Market don't gather resources from outside his Circle (only visitors come from outside, not workers). I can put the Circle to a specific Point to gather what is available there but this doesn't help to extend my Settlement and get multiple Products. If i want to build a new Towncenter i need multiple Markets with destinations to all my different production Points. Another Problem seems that a Market takes away all Resources from its destination, for example my Market took away all Medications from its destination (over 500) so nothing was available for the people that live there. Imho Markets should gather resources from all the around the map (not just the circle) but only a small ammount and not everything that is available, this way you could just build markets where you want to expand. Currently i don't know how to use them and i rather don't build them. But maybe i'm doing something wrong, an explanation from someone who knows the mechanics and know how they should be used would be nice.

Btw. great Game, I really like it. :)

[Gentlymad | Kizzle]

Originally posted by Asmodan:

I played around a bit with the Market but i didn't get how they should work.

Originally posted by Dulosis:

... Working circles for market doesn't seem to be usable at all, if you are going to build up a bigger town, with different sections of production.

This is my Problem. The Circle is too small and from my observation the Market don't gather resources from outside his Circle (only visitors come from outside, not workers). I can put the Circle to a specific Point to gather what is available there but this doesn't help to extend my Settlement and get multiple Products. If i want to build a new Towncenter i need multiple Markets with destinations to all my different production Points. Another Problem seems that a Market takes away all Resources from its destination, for example my Market took away all Medications from its destination (over 500) so nothing was available for the people that live there. Imho Markets should gather resources from all the around the map (not just the circle) but only a small ammount and not everything that is available, this way you could just build markets where you want to expand. Currently i don't know how to use them and i rather don't build them. But maybe i'm doing something wrong, an explanation from someone who knows the mechanics and know how they should be used would be nice.

Btw. great Game, I really like it. :)

Yeah, the Market really needs some adjustments :)
Thanks!

[=NickFury=]

Originally posted by beebopper:

I really do not see the issue with markets.. IMO they are working as intended... they are your expansion points.. and probably the least item if at all in need of fixing with in the game.

I think part of it is that the game makes an effort to teach you not to centralize your productions into one single area. We all know that things like having only one water supply at some lake will cause a lot of issues down the line.
The core idea of the market is the exact opposite, as it wants you to centralize the distribution of important items, so it naturally clashes with the game's other mechanics in many aspects. I guess that makes it feel like it's not working right to many players, as they learned from experience that forcing everyone to go to that one building in the middle of their settlement instead of supplying them locally is neither ideal nor efficient.
On top of that, they can be laggy, and they can be too greedy for some people and take away items that are crucial for productions unless you know to block them from doing so in advance.
I'm sure you remember that I still like them, especially for the feature of emptying out internal storages, and so saving production buildings some delivery time, but even could see that some improvements would make them more useful, especially for larger settlements.

Maybe, instead of a static circle, that forces people to plan their storages according to its size, a system to select particular storages and production buildings could fix a lot of the issues. A simple button on the market's profile that lets you pick where your logisticans go to, instead of having to use an encompassing circle would already give players a lot more agency and prevent important storages from being emptied inadvertently. Technically, that'd just be allowing the player to create an array of buildings he wants the market to access. Building smart would still have its perks this way, but people would gain more control over the market all while having a fire-and-forget solution that doesn't deviate too far from the old market mechanics. You could still have the circle when placing the market, so people aren't stuck with a useless building until they set their preferred pick-up places. This way it could still be forgiving for new players too, while allowing more experienced people a higher degree of customization.

While I'm posting and since I've read your post in the other thread: It's great to have helpful people like you around. All the praise is definitely deserved.

[IndigoFighter]

Hmm ... I don´t really know where the problem is. I´m with @beebopper here. When I expand my settlement. let´s say, wider than the working-area of my 1st market, I build a second one with everything it "needs" (Production of food, scrap-catcher, recylcers/refinery ect.) within the range of it´s working-area. (and btw. the circle is huge )

I always saw / used the markets as "town-centers" for new "districts" and never had any problems

[Maximvs]

1- So you can Make a market to pick items from another market?

2- Also it will be easier if Market just gather the goods until fullfill the storage orders given, regardless of how they need to travel like the common citizen travels to get water or food regardless of distance. Markets need to have a MUCH bigger circle or not circle at all.

[beebopper]

ok.. this is a very old thread...

1. No the markets do not collect from each other.

2. What you describe is how it used to be before it was changed to it's current state,, IMO a major step back and against how a market works IRL.. but meh.. this is what the community at the time cried for and got sadly..

I personally now only use a few markets here or there rather than a major town center like building for expansion.

[Dulosis]

Oh, you necro my thread. Well, years ago i was to used to banish, where i got some industrial centers and my markets did the distribution in the living areas. This game does not work this way and i got used to it too. It is more like connecting small communities together, which are all, more or less, self sufficient in production of every need your survivors got. In my opinion this thread can be closed.