Is there any reason to keep non-round/seat winds in Mahjong?

[Hekatonkheires]

Aside for the meme hands that are statistically basically impossible? (Edit: Oh I guess 7 Pairs works with it.) I'm still learning how to play it but I seem to end up with invalid winning hands when I keep them + steal / don't riichi.

[Latency]

Unless you start with a pair/triple, then no I would not keep them. Typically my order of preferred discards early game goes:
Single non-seat/round winds that someone has discarded
Single Dragons that someone has discarded
Single seat/round winds that someone has discarded
Single non-seat/round winds
Single Dragons
Single seat/round winds
Single #1 or #9 tiles with no chance for a 1-2-3 or 7-8-9 sequence

After that it gets more complicated depending on the rest of my hand and what overall discards are already on the table. It can sometimes be worth keeping single winds or dragons if you are going for a half flush, but usually it's not worth it. One example would be if you start with quite a lot of one suit and have a choice to get rid of your last tile in a suit vs discarding a wind; in that case I'd probably keep the wind and dump the suited tile. Another thing to remember is that late in the game winds (especially the non-seat/round winds) tend to be safer discards if someone has declared riichi as the computer very rarely goes for riichi if they need a wind, so if you're worried about the cpu getting a ron off you, having a wind to dump late game can be nice.

[Hekatonkheires]

Thanks for the answer, but I keep getting into situations like this where I'm not sure why I haven't already won: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2445745051

I guess it's because of the 1/2 yaku hand winning rule that I was switching between after the the AI kept getting riichi within the first five discards, I don't remember what it was set to in this case.

I'm pretty sure I would have won in this case if the round/seat wind was in the place of the wind I had a triplet of but I don't know why.

[Latency]

The reason you can't go out with that hand is that it's not concealed (you have stolen tiles from other people) and you don't have any sets or combination of sets that are worth points. This is why most mahjong strategy posts recommend you do not steal from other players; until you understand how all the scoring works it's really not a good idea and can stop you from going out like in your picture. Even when you do understand the scoring you still lose points just by stealing (as it reduces the value of your hand), so it's just not a great idea overall.

In general the only time I recommend stealing is if you REALLY need to win and already have a set/sets that give you points (triplet dragons or round/seat winds for example) and don't care if you devalue the rest of your hand. In that case just keep stealing since you're likely going to only get 1 han anyways. Another possible scenario would be if you start the game with 2 triplets (or more); going for 4 triplets can be worth stealing as you'll still get decent points. The same would hold true for a flush, but that's generally harder since most of your sets will be runs and you can only steal those from the player to your left. Finally, if it's really late in the game (less than 10 tiles left in the draw pile) and stealing gets you 1 tile from winning it can be worth it because if there's a draw you won't lose points, or (more importantly) the deal if you're dealer.

[Hekatonkheires]

Great, my strategy of only stealing round/seat winds and triplet dragons is correct then.

[Hekatonkheires]

Sorry, but that's not useful. I already know how Tsumo/Ron works, the problem was having non-valid winning hands because of non-concealed non-round/seat wind triplets.

[ak78ak]

Originally posted by Hekatonkheires:

Sorry, but that's not useful. I already know how Tsumo/Ron works, the problem was having non-valid winning hands because of non-concealed non-round/seat wind triplets.

I see, sorry about that then

[Hekatonkheires]

No problem, thanks for the reply - it seems to have entirely disappeared though, it might be useful for other people who are falling down the Mahjong rabbit hole. I think I was supposed to be saving chairman Goda or something?

[ak78ak]

Originally posted by Hekatonkheires:

No problem, thanks for the reply - it seems to have entirely disappeared though, it might be useful for other people who are falling down the Mahjong rabbit hole. I think I was supposed to be saving chairman Goda or something?

Sure, not sure what happened regarding the post but I’ll paste another response in this discussion forrum for someone who had trouble with winning games in Mahjong for Yakuza Kiwami 2 (but these tips can also be applied to any version of the Yakuza games):

Mahjong is very much like playing cards, where you need to get a winning hand to win games and accumulate points.

The aim of Mahjong is to get a winning hand from your 14 tiles. You can do this by getting the following:

- Any 4 triplet/sequence tiles
- 1 pair

OR

- 7 pairs

OR

- A full sequence from one tile group (numbered 1-9)
- A triplet
- A pair

Now as you know you have 5 different tile types:

- Japanese numbers (1-9)
- Bamboo numbered (1-9)
- Dots numbered (1-9)
- Dragon (White-Green-Red)
- Wind (North-South-East-West)

Now as I mentioned earlier, you need either 4 triplets OR sequences AND 1 pair. So for example, you can win/go out in a game of Mahjong if you have a hand similar to this:

- Japanese number sequence (3, 4 and 5)
- A triplet of Dots (number 5)
- Bamboo sequence (5, 6 and 7)
- A triplet of Bamboos (number 8)
- A pair of Red Dragons

To get this winning hand, it won’t come automatically and when you are close (i.e. one tile away from winning), you need to call/declare RIICHI. You can declare/call RIICHI with your controller (when it comes back to your turn) by pressing the X button on an Xbox controller OR the SQUARE button on a Playstation controller. So you would call RIICHI if your hand looked like this (from the example above):

- Japanese number sequence (3 and 4)
- A triplet of Dots (number 5)
- Bamboo sequence (5, 6 and 7)
- A triplet of Bamboos (number 8)
- A pair of Red Dragons
- A Bamboo (9)

Now for this hand, you need to call RIICHI and discard the Bamboo 9 tile in favour of the Japanese number 5 tile. So when you have called RIICHI, this part will be automatic and when it finds the tile you need to win (either in the deck or by stealing from a discarded tile from an opponent) it will prompt you to either win by TSUMO or RON respectively if it finds the tile required for you to win

Here is a clip on YouTube that explains about how/when to use RIICHI:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BvIRWMtCSYM

Now here are some useful tips that might help you further:

- Like with some of the other minigames (gambling/casino/Shogi), there is an element of luck and RNG involved. So it’s a good idea to save the game before, and if things aren’t going well you can always reload that save point.

- When making pairs, it’s best to use either the wind or dragon tiles as you can’t really make a sequence of these.

- Pay attention to the tiles your opponents discard, as you can then strategically form the hand you need from the remaining tiles in the deck.

- In the middle of the table, there are 4 tiles, one faced up and the other three are faced down. The one that is faced up is known as the Dora. If it’s possible, try and ensure you can get that tile (in the form of a pair/triplet or sequence) as this will net you points if you win.

- There are cheat items available for Mahjong (peerless tiles). There are 3 of these tiles in the game, but it is best to save these for the sub-story and the tournaments (both in Kamurocho and Sonenbori).

- If you are down to the last 15-20 tiles before the game ends, try and steal tiles from your opponents to form smaller hands like PON/KANG and CHI when prompted, this will net you points even if you draw the game.

Lastly I have put up a walkthrough guide on Mahjong that you might find useful if you get stuck with winning:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps4/218734-yakuza-kiwami-2/faqs/76366/mahjong

[Hekatonkheires]

How does draw points even work, actually? I thought you only got 3000 if you were 1 tile off winning divided by the number of players in the same state? I can't believe a 30 page tutorial doesn't include this.

[ak78ak]

Originally posted by Hekatonkheires:

How does draw points even work, actually? I thought you only got 3000 if you were 1 tile off winning divided by the number of players in the same state? I can't believe a 30 page tutorial doesn't include this.

I believe if you are not going to win the round and it’s heading for a tie (i.e. none of the other players have called Richii), then it’s a good idea from the last 20 tiles to draw to start stealing tiles to form smaller hands (Kang/Pon/Chi), that way you should get some points at the end of the round.

[Hekatonkheires]

So what's the actual calculation, 1 Pon/Chi/Kan = 500/1000 points or what?

[ak78ak]

Originally posted by Hekatonkheires:

So what's the actual calculation, 1 Pon/Chi/Kan = 500/1000 points or what?

Not sure exactly but sometimes when the round heads for a tie, I may get something like 1,000 to 1,500 points for a combination of chis and pons.

It’s a really complicated process and I think it’s dependant on the type of tiles you have. You may get more points if using seat wind and dragon tiles as they’re more difficult to form melds as players tend to discard with them early.

[Latency]

Pon/Chi/Kan don't have point values per se, they just help you get closer to completing your hand.

From what I have seen on draws, anyone who is 1 tile away from winning gets points and anyone who is not gets those points taken away. If there is only one person 1 tile away they will get 3000 points and everyone else will lose 1000. If there are two people 1 tile away they'll each get 1000 and the other two will each lose 1000. If there are three people 1 tile away they will each get 1000 and the fourth person will lose 3000. If the dealer is a "winner" the values appear to change to 4500/1500 instead of 3000/1000, but I'm not sure about that.

[Hekatonkheires]

Here's another situation where I thought I had won but hadn't. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2446850042

I thought I had 2 han from the red dora and board dora but apparently that isn't valid for winning. Just consider it a bonus after winning?

[Hekatonkheires]

Also, I just had someone declare riichi when I was in the middle of declaring chi, I'm not sure what that was about. I took the button prompt for chi and they declared riichi before I grabbed the tile.