If you ignored these story pairings what is the strongest team?

[Nezkeys]

I would guess Kevin is on the team lol

[Pisaro]

I guess Kevin, Duran and Angela.

[Drake]

Depends on if you ask about individual power or if synergies comes in count. Riesz, kevin angela might be the strongest, just because you don't need to have 3 heavy hitters, you just need to kill stuff switfly, and usually one class strike from kevin + one or a few spells from angela, if the mobs are debuffed and the team is buffed, is enough.

[EbonySeraphim]

Agree with Drake. I'd change up Reisz for Charlotte (probably Warlock) though for progression through most of the game. That being said, my fastest clear on Black Rabite (Hard) was with Drake's mentioned party: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceqkEJktenU Reisz is probably better for setting speed clear records on bosses shy of exploiting very unique mechanics.

[Nezkeys]

From my first playthrough I'd say dark Kevin has to be in the side. I haven't used Angela or reisz yet but they will be together in my hawkeye playthrough soon. As far as Charlotte and Duran are concerned I think necro and edelfrei were the wrong choice for him. The attack boosts from paladin and sage would have been far more useful to dark kev imo (the AI seems to suck at actually doing damage so why not just boost the character you control via passives).

Black curse wasn't really that useful really either cause I didn't really need the bosses to do less damage(atk down and magic atk down), and none of my characters cast magic so magic def down was useless. All I was getting was def down really and the classes I mentioned have def down passives

As for edelfrei I think his sabers are nigh on useless. There is no point to using them in normal battles as they are over too quick, and against bosses most of them had a resistance or you faced them before you could use the relevant saber lol, and those you could use them on it barely made a difference really. Edelfrei is strong cause of Concentrate and Attack Stance though

Anyway back to the topic if it's a melee one maybe this (I don't know how more effective reisz is as starlancer / fenrir knight yet to replace one of the two supports here)

Fatal Fist
Sage
Paladin

Endgame all you do is spam aoe class strike every battle anyway and I feel like Fatal Fist and paladin get some OP class strikes

[Drake]

You need magick atk up for class strike, since they use both magic and atk stats.

Also you look like you're playing on normal. Normal mode and hard mode are very, very easy.

I did a playthrough in hard mode using only light/light classes with duran, riesz and hawkeye and only using the starter equipment (so I did pretty much 0 damage, duran was specced full tank with the taunt so he did nothing, awkeye was the buffer and riesz was my "dps" and the only thing doing that really was her atk buff enhanced by her passives). And I even used a mod that removed the red rings so I couldn't time the dodges and had to take most of the damage.
The result was that I did the game just fine.

Buffs and spells are really only relevant in hard for the 2 minute timed last boss to get the last chain ability and in expert and no future where build actually matters (especially no future since you don't really have much items and mobs do a lot of damage).

[Nezkeys]

Originally posted by Drake:

You need magick atk up for class strike, since they use both magic and atk stats.

Also you look like you're playing on normal. Normal mode and hard mode are very, very easy.

I did a playthrough in hard mode using only light/light classes with duran, riesz and hawkeye and only using the starter equipment (so I did pretty much 0 damage, duran was specced full tank with the taunt so he did nothing, awkeye was the buffer and riesz was my "dps" and the only thing doing that really was her atk buff enhanced by her passives). And I even used a mod that removed the red rings so I couldn't time the dodges and had to take most of the damage.
The result was that I did the game just fine.

Buffs and spells are really only relevant in hard for the 2 minute timed last boss to get the last chain ability and in expert and no future where build actually matters (especially no future since you don't really have much items and mobs do a lot of damage).

This "it doesn't matter what you do unless you're playing no future mode" thing I disagree with. I'm relatively new to the game like others and even if I wasn't I still like to min/max things it's part and parcel of the way I play rpgs. Generally playing games like dark souls doesn't interest me at all. Having to dodge hundreds of attacks before you can get 1 attack in, and if you get hit you die in 1 hit...no thanks. If people like to play this way then fine it's their choice it's just not what I find enjoyable personally.

Yes I'm playing on normal but before I move to hard I actually want to see what they're all like first.

[AnemoneMeer]

Angela/Duran/Riesz.

Kevin has incredibly high damage output to be sure and if we were talking raw kill speed with no regard for anything else, Angela/Kevin/Riesz would be the party composition with the fastest kills.

Duran, while notably weaker than Kevin in terms of murder power, has no issues controlling enemy attention and no threat of death regardless of the difficulty. Angela can thus spend all her time doing maximum damage and actually hit her theoretical damage maximum in most fights, as can Riesz. A team without Duran has to care about things like aggro, and dodging, and other such things that mean you aren't dealing as much damage as possible as quickly as possible.

On hard, you don't need to care about dodging at all. On Expert/No Future, it does matter. So aggro control helps Angela do the stupid, stupid levels of damage she can do.

[Nezkeys]

Originally posted by AnemoneMeer:

Angela/Duran/Riesz.

Kevin has incredibly high damage output to be sure and if we were talking raw kill speed with no regard for anything else, Angela/Kevin/Riesz would be the party composition with the fastest kills.

Duran, while notably weaker than Kevin in terms of murder power, has no issues controlling enemy attention and no threat of death regardless of the difficulty. Angela can thus spend all her time doing maximum damage and actually hit her theoretical damage maximum in most fights, as can Riesz. A team without Duran has to care about things like aggro, and dodging, and other such things that mean you aren't dealing as much damage as possible as quickly as possible.

On hard, you don't need to care about dodging at all. On Expert/No Future, it does matter. So aggro control helps Angela do the stupid, stupid levels of damage she can do.

i will try that team after i finish the story pairings. what classes do you recommend for this team?

[Nezkeys]

One thing I did notice between testing out these two parties....

Edelfrei
Necromancer
Fatal Fist

VS

Liege
Sage
Fatal Fist

Is that the top one duran and Charlotte die frequently against bosses. In the second team I don't equip any defense or healing and haven't specced out stamina and they rarely die (and I think paladin and high cleric are tankier). Tbf I had attacker Stance on duran all the time and that lowers his defense. Making them both more offensive orientated actually made bosses harder imo. Black curse is OK but I don't think it compares to all the stacked atk and def buffs that liege and sage give to everyone. If I actually specced both durant and Charlotte as tank healers I'd imagine they don't die at all. When I do my duran angela run I'm going to make duran paladin and full tank with all defensive and healing abilities lol. This should make things easy for Angela

[Drake]

Depends on if you count class 4 or not and if you use items or not to buff+debuff. If you don't count class 4, black curse is better. Because of how damage is calculated, a debuff percentage is worth almost the double of the buff counterpart, so black curse doing -20% to all stat, you would need about +40% to the opposite stat to get the same effect, which duran + charlotte + buff items barely come close to just using black curse, you'll top that by needing to also use debuff items.
You need class 4 duran + charlotte to get the attack up all II and III on both chars to actually out perform the black curse effect (while keeping in mind that chaosbringer charlotte gets def down all II, so -10% def to be added to black curse) when using buff+debuff items (since the passives will actually match black curse now).
But that's besides the point. The point of going necro is to spam summons (because that's what the class is all about, you get up to 60% more damage with summons which puts them on par with regular high level attack spells, black curse is just there to add to the utility in case you don't have any debuffer).
Warlock charlotte, while using def down items would work better for debuffing since you get def down all passive(even if warlock is way better at supporting elemental classes, so ninja hawk, edelfrei duran and angela, on par with dark riesz for that specific case).

But yeah, for duran + kevin, dark/dark riesz would be the actually debuffer to use, since you can get almost 60% debuffs on all stats (increasing all damages to almost 100%, while suffering little to no damage).
About offencive stance, that 40% less defence is a lot, it's getting double debuffed all the time, if you get a defence debuff in that stance you pretty much get hit for almost 3 times the damage. You really need to control him all the time and use shield items to not get hit, otherwise it's kind of useless because you always get killed, unless you are good enough to manage the moon saber healing effect and keep yourself alive with it.

[Nezkeys]

Originally posted by Drake:

Depends on if you count class 4 or not and if you use items or not to buff+debuff. If you don't count class 4, black curse is better. Because of how damage is calculated, a debuff percentage is worth almost the double of the buff counterpart, so black curse doing -20% to all stat, you would need about +40% to the opposite stat to get the same effect, which duran + charlotte + buff items barely come close to just using black curse, you'll top that by needing to also use debuff items.
You need class 4 duran + charlotte to get the attack up all II and III on both chars to actually out perform the black curse effect (while keeping in mind that chaosbringer charlotte gets def down all II, so -10% def to be added to black curse) when using buff+debuff items (since the passives will actually match black curse now).
But that's besides the point. The point of going necro is to spam summons (because that's what the class is all about, you get up to 60% more damage with summons which puts them on par with regular high level attack spells, black curse is just there to add to the utility in case you don't have any debuffer).
Warlock charlotte, while using def down items would work better for debuffing since you get def down all passive(even if warlock is way better at supporting elemental classes, so ninja hawk, edelfrei duran and angela, on par with dark riesz for that specific case).

But yeah, for duran + kevin, dark/dark riesz would be the actually debuffer to use, since you can get almost 60% debuffs on all stats (increasing all damages to almost 100%, while suffering little to no damage).
About offencive stance, that 40% less defence is a lot, it's getting double debuffed all the time, if you get a defence debuff in that stance you pretty much get hit for almost 3 times the damage. You really need to control him all the time and use shield items to not get hit, otherwise it's kind of useless because you always get killed, unless you are good enough to manage the moon saber healing effect and keep yourself alive with it.

I never thought to cast moon saber on him lol but yeah he died a lot

[Nezkeys]

BTW lol...used projectiles on the newgame + and they're op af. For instance tutorial fight 2-3 damage on regular hits then bumpkin is aoe 85 damage LOL

If hawk can get a buff to projectiles in his light path then I'm seriously rethinking going dark with him. What's the point of debuff spells or messing around with status one shots if projectile or trap one shots enemies? Besides I kind of played that strat with kevin anyway via mute / Charred to activate special effect before spamming seiryu strike to instantly end any battle (via the 200% CS cactus chain ability)

[Drake]

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

BTW lol...used projectiles on the newgame + and they're op af. For instance tutorial fight 2-3 damage on regular hits then bumpkin is aoe 85 damage LOL

If hawk can get a buff to projectiles in his light path then I'm seriously rethinking going dark with him. What's the point of debuff spells or messing around with status one shots if projectile or trap one shots enemies? Besides I kind of played that strat with kevin anyway via mute / Charred to activate special effect before spamming seiryu strike to instantly end any battle (via the 200% CS cactus chain ability)

Depends on which dark hawkeye. Ninja master is a complete different beast from nightblade. the diversions from ninja master are enhanced. They cover multiple areas, and they are devastating against bosses since they have multiple strike points. When a projectile will hit once (except maybe the grumpkin, but the aoe is still very small), a diversion+ might hit like 10 times easy, not forgeting that diversions are easy to chain spam (and have passives that enhance the damage when you do spam them). Plus a projectile won't onehsot in expert or no future mode, while a spam chain from ninja master will still clear a room is a few seconds.

While I do like the rogue class (it's a pretty fun class to play), the ninja master is something else, especially with charlotte as a warlock and riesz as a starlancer to buff him like crazy.

[Nezkeys]

Originally posted by Drake:

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

BTW lol...used projectiles on the newgame + and they're op af. For instance tutorial fight 2-3 damage on regular hits then bumpkin is aoe 85 damage LOL

If hawk can get a buff to projectiles in his light path then I'm seriously rethinking going dark with him. What's the point of debuff spells or messing around with status one shots if projectile or trap one shots enemies? Besides I kind of played that strat with kevin anyway via mute / Charred to activate special effect before spamming seiryu strike to instantly end any battle (via the 200% CS cactus chain ability)

Depends on which dark hawkeye. Ninja master is a complete different beast from nightblade. the diversions from ninja master are enhanced. They cover multiple areas, and they are devastating against bosses since they have multiple strike points. When a projectile will hit once (except maybe the grumpkin, but the aoe is still very small), a diversion+ might hit like 10 times easy, not forgeting that diversions are easy to chain spam (and have passives that enhance the damage when you do spam them). Plus a projectile won't onehsot in expert or no future mode, while a spam chain from ninja master will still clear a room is a few seconds.

While I do like the rogue class (it's a pretty fun class to play), the ninja master is something else, especially with charlotte as a warlock and riesz as a starlancer to buff him like crazy.

I like the idea of playing something different (punching with dark kev and obliterating everything was fun) but hawkeye seems to have his own playstyle with the traps. ninja master does sound good tho. As strong as the instant kill of statuses enemies sounds its appeal has worn off because I sort of already did that with kev via Mute/Charred + Special Effect. Things weren't insta killed but it was still strong until I was able to just spam class strikes every battle. I'd just rather play something different. Does nightblade have anything any other reason to play them other than the insta kill method?

[AnemoneMeer]

Originally posted by Nezkeys:

Originally posted by AnemoneMeer:

Angela/Duran/Riesz.

Kevin has incredibly high damage output to be sure and if we were talking raw kill speed with no regard for anything else, Angela/Kevin/Riesz would be the party composition with the fastest kills.

Duran, while notably weaker than Kevin in terms of murder power, has no issues controlling enemy attention and no threat of death regardless of the difficulty. Angela can thus spend all her time doing maximum damage and actually hit her theoretical damage maximum in most fights, as can Riesz. A team without Duran has to care about things like aggro, and dodging, and other such things that mean you aren't dealing as much damage as possible as quickly as possible.

On hard, you don't need to care about dodging at all. On Expert/No Future, it does matter. So aggro control helps Angela do the stupid, stupid levels of damage she can do.

i will try that team after i finish the story pairings. what classes do you recommend for this team?

Riesz is always gonna be Fenrir Knight. Debuffs are harder to get that buffs and her damage output is very solid too. Main problem is the AI has an addiction to spamming Hexas when out of range but... isn't that all Riesz summons in a nutshell?

Duran can go either way. Liege has healing and stuns things for *ages* with his stupidly slow class strike, but lacks output. Buffs Angela and Riesz and lets you abuse wound magic for all its worth though. Edelfrei has personal output. Not sure which contributes more but either way his job is to hold all of the aggro as an AI you never play because No Future.

Angela likewise can go either of two ways. Grand Diviner if you want to endlessly be blowing up the battlefield. Magus if you want maximum possible damage. If we're talking kill times, it's gonna be Magus.

You pretty much do the usual Riesz/Angela stuff with wound magic and such, but the enemy spends literally all of its time slapping Duran so Angela can just stand there and endlessly cast Ancient Curse on No Future to kill everything with the purest glass cannon build you can make. Riesz goes just as glass cannon as a class strike machine gun.