Angela's 4th Class Change Item Fight

[Bongoboy]

My Party is Angela, Duran and Hawkeye. I just did Durans 4th Class Change Item Quest ... where you fight his Dad.

Was not bad but his Dad has some Attacks that you don't see coming, no telegraph whatsoever. Like that one where he suddenly charges you and does his 10 or so stabs. But it was overall still not that bad.

Now i try to do Angela's ... god. There are multiple spells that dumb Shadow casts that just plainly one-hit me. They hit me and then I get a mini-stun and get hit right away again until I die. If I dare to use a spell then that Shadow decides suddenly to cast a spell too. Even if i am not stuck in a Spell Cast animation ... allot of the stuff that Shadow does i can't seem to get out of the range of the effects on the ground.

But this is something i kept see over the whole game. There are some Bosses that just spam Magics and make you run from A to B to Z while not giving you enough time to really evade. You are supposed to Run nearly all the way out and then use that Dodge at the last moment.

Ugh so frustrating.

[Bongoboy]

I just defeated that Dark Angela ... on Easy. The only difference to Hard (which i played so far) was the damage she did. There are literally things that Shadow does which are almost impossible to evade.

Even when i focused purely on dodging everything that Shadow does there are some things you just can not evade even with running and dodging. Like that Shadow - Lightning Combo she does.
And the worst is when she did that Multi Bullet thing ... if that hits you once you get stunned and can't get away from the rest.
On Hard at Level 66 you just die ... or are very low on HP and using a Item to Heal might kill you.

Did anyone else have such a problem with this spot? I hope this is just balanced horrendous ...

[erzengel_222]

i got her on 3rd try and didnt changed to easy .... but didnt know if i played on normal ord hard or whatever.

i gave angela some passive abilitys with magic defens ... but cant rly say if it saved my life or not or if shadow angela still have magic penetration.

its good to dodge her and then start to attack, when you cnat dodge anymore use your charged abilitys so you dont get hitted.

[Arkhne]

Now that we have another one, anyone want to predict how many threads about this fight are going to be started over the next year?

[PantsuMask]

Yup, she is honestly the hardest 4th class fight imo. first time i did that one on hard she killed me like, 5 times LOL. i was light too, and she was doing some massive dmg.

[Bogan]

Originally posted by Lithariel:

I just defeated that Dark Angela ... on Easy. The only difference to Hard (which i played so far) was the damage she did. There are literally things that Shadow does which are almost impossible to evade.

Even when i focused purely on dodging everything that Shadow does there are some things you just can not evade even with running and dodging. Like that Shadow - Lightning Combo she does.
And the worst is when she did that Multi Bullet thing ... if that hits you once you get stunned and can't get away from the rest.
On Hard at Level 66 you just die ... or are very low on HP and using a Item to Heal might kill you.

Did anyone else have such a problem with this spot? I hope this is just balanced horrendous ...

Maybe you should do what they do in most JRPG's and grind levels. I had no problem beating her at level 90 on normal.

[Aumires]

Both Duran and Angela's fights feel so much different than the rest of the game.

I actually had game overs at both of them last time I replayed them: Loki had a multistab attack power surge suddenly that one shot my Duran when I almost defeated him, perhaps I triggered his Counterattack thing somehow massively.

Angela's fight requires not slipping up and being a bit tanky in Spirit as well as debuffing with eye items. Feels much more something out of Dark Souls.

Originally posted by Carnage:

Maybe you should do what they do in most JRPG's and grind levels. I had no problem beating her at level 90 on normal.

Uh, that's even higher up than Black Rabite's level, totally overleveled haha. The other character fights are fine, Angela's is clearly overtuned - well, compared to the rest of the game. I actually like this fight a lot.

[Bongoboy]

Originally posted by Senpai-kun:

she puts you on your ass inside of ten seconds and your only hope is to give her everything you've got in the very short windows of opportunity between her nukes.

Actually she doesn't put me on my ♥♥♥ inside of ten seconds, the main problem is that she doesn't have any telegraph on when she is going to use a Spell ... like she has for her Melee stuff. If she want to do Melee she starts to move towards you, that tells you well enough her intent.
But for Spells? She sometimes follows you like she want to smack you and suddenly starts casting ... which puts (for that said Thunder/Earth combo) a big circle underneath your feet that follows you around a good bit, followed by the smaller circle. Since she does that super sudden the circle is fast right on top of you and is pretty fast following you.

I not know, while i like to have some challenge ... i not really need a Dance Dance Revolution trying to stay alive ... and at quite some Bosses did the same ... and the AI sucks at this hard.

Originally posted by erzengel_222:

its good to dodge her and then start to attack, when you cnat dodge anymore use your charged abilitys so you dont get hitted.

Yeah i found out about that too. If you time your Super Attacks you can use them to evade Spells. The most annoying thing is that you can not stun Shadow Angela.

Originally posted by Warchild:

Now that we have another one, anyone want to predict how many threads about this fight are going to be started over the next year?

Uh so i am not the first one to complain? Overall i have to say the game is poorly balanced. There are quite some spots where the game is a little too easy ... and then there are spots where it is way too hard .
And i am not talking about the amount of damage you take.
What i talk about is certain Bosses that use Special Attacks that put circles below your feet that follow you around and you just can't evade however hard you hit that dodge button.

Originally posted by PantsuMask:

Yup, she is honestly the hardest 4th class fight imo. first time i did that one on hard she killed me like, 5 times LOL. i was light too, and she was doing some massive dmg.

Yeah the first few times she just killed me. I am Light/Light too, i cast something ... she cast something ... it hit me ... and for some reason the first hit stuns me and the moment i can move again the Magic hits me again and stuns me again too.
Especially that Lightning Ball thing she casts ... if one of those hits me i get hit by every bullet she casts afterward, i just get stun-locked ... even mashing the dodge button doesn't do anything ...
Then i just focused on dodging ... and yeah shes evil. She always waits til i cast a Spell or use a Item and can't evade. Add that to some of her Spells that are nasty to evade and you have a nice party.

Originally posted by Aumires:

Both Duran and Angela's fights feel so much different than the rest of the game.

I actually had game overs at both of them last time I replayed them: Loki had a multistab attack power surge suddenly that one shot my Duran when I almost defeated him, perhaps I triggered his Counterattack thing somehow massively.

Angela's fight requires not slipping up and being a bit tanky in Spirit as well as debuffing with eye items. Feels much more something out of Dark Souls.

Originally posted by Carnage:

Maybe you should do what they do in most JRPG's and grind levels. I had no problem beating her at level 90 on normal.

Uh, that's even higher up than Black Rabite's level, totally overleveled haha. The other character fights are fine, Angela's is clearly overtuned - well, compared to the rest of the game. I actually like this fight a lot.

That Duran one was not hard, but i was Paladin so yeah. My Duran's set up is pure Defense ... that might have helped to not die. And i agree ... Lokis Multistap skill is supernasty. There is no telegraph here either ... he just suddenly dashes forward and stabs you already like there is no tomorrow.

You know i have nothing against a Hard Game. If it stays fair. But putting stuff into a game, without any telegraph that the enemy is going to do a certain attack is just cheap.
In Dark Souls and all the other games (Bloodborne, Sekiro) FromSoftware made sure there are enough telegraphs to warn the player.
Not like in this one here.

[Arkhne]

Originally posted by Lithariel:

Originally posted by Warchild:

Now that we have another one, anyone want to predict how many threads about this fight are going to be started over the next year?

Uh so i am not the first one to complain? Overall i have to say the game is poorly balanced. There are quite some spots where the game is a little too easy ... and then there are spots where it is way too hard .
And i am not talking about the amount of damage you take.
What i talk about is certain Bosses that use Special Attacks that put circles below your feet that follow you around and you just can't evade however hard you hit that dodge button.

All of the game is FAR too easy. I'm no elite gamer (very far from it, poor reaction times on top of that), and the T4 Angela fight was about the only time I felt like "Hard" wasn't "easymode". (Except for maybe that cheap and stupid wall boss, I swear, that stagger and stunlock extended beyond the red markers). I quite liked the Angela T4 fight (and I utterly hated that stupid wallface).

This fight requires you to actually know how THIS game works, not assume it is <insert any game you want here>. Mashing dodge is a one-way ticket to deathville, don't be dumb, dodge at the last moment. Stuff like that should be expected of you for 90% of the game, not just one fight.

I understand having an "Easy" difficulty option, but when you put "Hard" in and you can steamroll the entire game without having played it before, you've balanced your difficulty settings wrong.

I would have to say, that to this day, the best balanced RPG I've played is actually the indie series "Epic Battle Fantasy", particularly the 3rd and 4th entries. The easiest difficulty settings are mindnumbing wipefests, and the hardest can be pure torture if you don't know the series. And while I prefer smarter enemy AI, the stat (and elemental) slanting of enemies (particularly bosses) make the game a lot more interesting than 'Spam big non-elemental attack to win' or 'Mash attack to win' like many RPGs, neither would grinding alone beat the harder difficulties for you, you still had to be not totally stupid about your ability choice.

[AVCILAR METROBÜS]

hey whuts up

[General Tenebrous]

Her tells are the same as Angela's class strikes, and best time to attack her with your own spells are when she's using the two ton class strike honestly. Dodge that obviously (comes our right in front of her). That animation takes so long that you can usually pull off an ancient magic spell (whatever they're called, the non-elemental attack, if you have that) or whatever your strongest elemental spell is twice.

As for the double spells, dodge the first one as you normally would, then time your second dodge and you should be fine. Admittedly I didn't dodge them all, but you should have enough healing items to survive that.

[BB Mouse]

I usually save CS 1 for those attacks that cannot easily be evaded. When one character is out of CS, swap to another. I remember Angela has a skill that can prevent Knock back so your casting cannot be interrupted. That might help certain fights.

[Echsrick]

here is how i dit it i just changet to baby mode why? because the game cheats whit gettin hit even if your not in the red and stunlock spam and i was like 2 levels more or so so i was thinkin if the game cheats i cheat back everything else was ok you had time you dont get stunlooked but this was just bad game disigne

[Gespenst Gaming]

She's definitely the hardest, that's because everyone's Angela is passived for a party to protect her. You need to equip your passives that reduce magic damage to her and learn to dodge.
She was hard the first time for me as well, but that's because 1. I didn't know it would be a solo fight and 2. you have to learn her pattern and how the fight is going to be where she keeps dropping huge ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ spells on you constantly, and that you have a few brief windows to drop your "♥♥♥♥ off" non-elemental super spell you get for your class 3. while chugging an hp item after getting hit once.

[Thundercracker]

i did it on hard, and it was the only fight in the game able to kill me twice or more.

the trick is dodging and using melee, dont cast.

[Bongoboy]

Originally posted by Dr.Medic:

here is how i dit it i just changet to baby mode why? because the game cheats whit gettin hit even if your not in the red and stunlock spam and i was like 2 levels more or so so i was thinkin if the game cheats i cheat back everything else was ok you had time you dont get stunlooked but this was just bad game disigne

Yeah. I play the whole game on Hard.
I did Duran first ... was not too bad but that one skill his dad does where he suddenly charge you and do the multi hit thing ... that is super edgy and close to unavoidable. You have to catch the right moment to push the dodge button ... once hit since he does mini-stuns there is no getting out of that.
And it is the same with Angela. For some reason the Shadow always does Spells when you cast or use a Item. The worst is on Hard she ... hits Hard (and that with me using all the Magic Defence skills i can).
All of her Magics did Stun me and when the Magic was done i spit blood at 10% HP. And the worst is using a Item if done too hastily also makes you not able to move ... and she tends to misuse that moment.
So yeah, i first set it to Normal after failing like 10 times ... and then i was just tired of that and set it to Easy.
I love a hard game like Dark Souls ... but Trials of Mana is not one of those.

Originally posted by Gespenst Gaming:

She's definitely the hardest, that's because everyone's Angela is passived for a party to protect her. You need to equip your passives that reduce magic damage to her and learn to dodge.
She was hard the first time for me as well, but that's because 1. I didn't know it would be a solo fight and 2. you have to learn her pattern and how the fight is going to be where she keeps dropping huge ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ spells on you constantly, and that you have a few brief windows to drop your "♥♥♥♥ off" non-elemental super spell you get for your class 3. while chugging an hp item after getting hit once.

Yeah i agree, the main problem is to learn the Spells Shadow Angela uses. They are not like yours ... just hitting. There are weird ... so far unseen patterns.

Like that Lightning/Earth Attack she does. First a BIG aoe circle spawns right below your feet and worse it keeps moving with you. And because that is not enough a second smaller(but faster moving) Lightning aoe circle spawns again at ur feet ... following you.

Those darn Developers ... they purposefully designing this in a evil way. You try to Dodge Roll out of the big circle ... and then it is on CD for the small circle ...