timeline?

[mdcpaladin]

played the heck out of secret of mana but there was never another mana game on snes that i knew about. how does this fit into the story?

[Eguzky]

Someone help me out; which Mana game came out on PS1, and had you exploring a tower? I want to stream it sometime.

[Makoto Naegi]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Eguzky:

Someone help me out; which Mana game came out on PS1, and had you exploring a tower? I want to stream it sometime.

I'm fairly certain that Legend of Mana is the only one on the PS1.

[Raynel]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Eguzky:

Someone help me out; which Mana game came out on PS1, and had you exploring a tower? I want to stream it sometime.

Yes, I believe only Legend of Mana is on PS1 (and on PS3 virtually, which is how I play it). There is indeed a tower you explore. One in particular I am thinking of (tower of Leires/Looking-glass tower). There were chess knights in that tower as enemies, among others, if that triggers any further memories for you.

[Eguzky]

Thank you! Images are not ringing many bells (Other than bunny-man) but I'll still stream it in the near future

[Elegnaim]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Raynel:

Before I post, I must further re-iterate that there is no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ connection between most mana games . Source for this is a developer interview in 1995 when Seiken Densetsu 3 came out:
http://shmuplations.com/seikendensetsu3/

As such, there will always be holes in theories and there is no perfect timeline because it doesn't exist. This is further complicated by the fact that multiple dimensions and reincarnation is mentioned (and is sometimes a key element of the plot) in many Mana games.

However... I believe that there is a timeline if you look at the evidence, and so am presenting it below:

SPOILERS FOR THE MANA SERIES BELOW!!!


Dawn of Mana- First of all, this has been stated by the game creators to be the first game in the Mana series. Additionally, besides the name, this clearly sets forth the continent/world of Fa’Diel, including the city-states, and explains how the original Mana Tree existed. Additionally, the Mana spirits are holding a council to discuss things that happened thousands of years ago, which refers to the events in the game, and there are literally countless Mana spirits created in the ending.

Children of Mana- Has the same exact setting as Dawn of Mana and is stated in the actual game to take place 10 years later. Additionally, sets up the Mana Tribe, as the Goddess of Mana gives the potential to create new Mana Trees to Tess and “your (her) daughters.”

Adventures of Mana- The city-states are still present with their original names, and the game sets up the last of the Mana Tribe and the final Tree of Mana, as there are no more female descendants to create a new mana tree if the current one, created in the ending, is destroyed. Additionally, in the Sword of Mana remake, mana spirits are still plentiful, and you can even acquire up to 8 of each yourself, while there are also certain NPCs who are stated to have one of their own, as well.

Heroes of Mana- Officially confirmed to be 19 years before Trials of Mana.

Trials of Mana- City-states are still present, but one of them has a new name. It is heavily implied that the mana spirits you encounter are the only ones present, which makes sense because Mana is in decline. Additionally, this sets up a way to recreate the Mana Tree without the tribe of Mana (which we know died out in the previous game).

Secret of Mana- The city-states are completely gone, replaced by new towns and cities. When viewing the orbs left by the ancients (which are said to be 1,000+ years old), the city-state names are mentioned , as well as a war between them. This clearly shows that the other games come before Secret of Mana, as these cities from these other games existed in the past of this game. It even implies how these cities were destroyed, in the great war involving the Fortress of Mana. The Mana Tree is burned by massively destructive weapons in this game, and there is no tribe of Mana or Faeries to birth a new one. It is again implied that only the 8 Mana spirits the party acquires remain, and they all disappear at the end because Mana power is gone forever in the ending .

Legend of Mana- Taking place after the Tree of Mana burned to ash (literally stated in the opening), this is the game that re-creates the world after the end. It only fits after Secret of Mana, because that is the only game that ends with Mana disappearing from the world permanently . All other games have the recreation of the Mana Tree in their endings.


So that's my personal belief. I plan sometime in the next couple weeks posting my full timeline with explanation and justifications, these are just some basic notes on why I believe this is the correct order (even though there officially isn't one).

Two thoughts:

- SoM takes place in a decidedly post-apocalyptic world that has modern-day tech from the distant past lying around, and it's sort of ambiguous whether mana's strictly magical or some kind of sufficiently-advanced-technology or something more like Mako energy in FFVII. FFA's implied to have a similar setting, so I think that kind of makes them mutually exclusive in a timeline. Unless you have something like SD3 -> Mana dies out, people turn towards technology, society modernizes and rediscovers mana as some like energy source, mana nukes happen -> FFA -> SoM? Sword's backstory feels sort of at odds with that tho.

- LoM's worldbuilding is very fleshed out and none of it fits in particularly well with the other games. Check out entry 25 in https://legendofmana.info/encyclopedias/world-history/ with regards to why the mana tree burned down, for instance.

[Raynel]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Elegnaim:

Two thoughts:

- SoM takes place in a decidedly post-apocalyptic world that has modern-day tech from the distant past lying around, and it's sort of ambiguous whether mana's strictly magical or some kind of sufficiently-advanced-technology or something more like Mako energy in FFVII. FFA's implied to have a similar setting, so I think that kind of makes them mutually exclusive in a timeline. Unless you have something like SD3 -> Mana dies out, people turn towards technology, society modernizes and rediscovers mana as some like energy source, mana nukes happen -> FFA -> SoM? Sword's backstory feels sort of at odds with that tho.

- LoM's worldbuilding is very fleshed out and none of it fits in particularly well with the other games. Check out entry 25 in https://legendofmana.info/encyclopedias/world-history/ with regards to why the mana tree burned down, for instance.

Of course, as mentioned, it doesn't line up perfectly.
However, you actually bring up further evidence that SoM takes place AFTER Trials of Mana, in a way I had not considered!
In Trials of Mana we see really incredible technology starting to be used- the robots you fight, referred to as the "new technology" or somesuch by the Altena Mages. It makes perfect sense that while Mana was dormant while the fairy-Mana Tree grew, they would further increase their technological prowess. Then, when the Mana returned after the Mana Tree had grown, they would have both technology AND mana power, supporting the idea behind the PAST of Secret of Mana being Trials of Mana! I'm adding that to my notes, thank you so much for mentioning it.

I don't believe that what I like to call "Adventures of Mana" after the mobile remake (because it's fits with the Mana naming scheme in the west) otherwise known as Final Fantasy Adventure takes place in a post apocaplytic world. I think that once again what you bring up fits with this, as there is very little technology beyond a single robot made by someone who is far more intelligent than anyone else in the game. In fact, I think it lends further credence to the idea that it comes BEFORE Trials of Mana as the professor is the only one in Adventure with advanced technology, but then a whole kingdom has it in Trials, which then leads into Secret, where apparently the whole world had it before the great war caused that technology to be lost. It actually fits perfectly... I'm adding that to my notes also, LOL.

Legend of Mana is... very interesting. It is one of the games that has to do with multiple dimensions, as the sproutlings talk about the Mana Tree being connected to all dimensions via its roots. I agree that it does not play nicely with the others. However, much of what you read in the game is very sparsely detailed and meant to be steeped in Legend. I absolutely could see a case being made that, for that game, Sprite=Fairy. If you stretch your disbelief a bit in that way, the fairies TOTALLY rose against the humans... with the aid of other humans no less, and defeated the empire, AND the Mana Tree was burned to ash in the conflict. We know the Sprite is not dead, just in another dimension, which fits with the LoM crossing of dimensions once again. All of this fits except the inclusion of Anise, but that could be excused as a mistranslation, or better yet, a melding of two legends- one about the Empire and the one that is the Dawn of Mana game.
But yea, overall, that single game doesn't work terribly well except that we know the Tree of Mana burned to ash before it begins.

[MaximeMartyr]

Okay then first, let me get something out of the way:
Seiken Densetsu = Mystic Quest, remade into Sword of Mana
Seiken Densetsu 2 = Secret of Mana
Seiken Densetsu 3 = Trials of Mana
Seiken Densetsu 4 = Dawn of Mana
Got it? Good. Then let's proceed:

Secret of Mana deals with the war against the Vandole empire and Sword of Mana takes place 20 years after the defeat of the Vandole empire and Julius is the reincarnation of the emperor Vandole himself so I would say that Sword of Mana is a sequel to Secret of Mana.
It was already like that even before Seiken Densetsu was remade into Sword of Mana.
I think Seiken Densetsu 2 was meant to be a prequel to Seiken Densetsu to tell the story of the Vandole empire war which served as the premise for Seiken Densetsu.
Indeed, the plot of Seiken Densetsu was about a Dark Lord being manipulated by Julius, the last survivor of the fallen Vandole empire destroyed years ago and his will to rebuild it using the power of the Mana Tree.
Then came Seiken Densetsu 2 which was about the very same Vandole empire which was such a big deal in Seiken Densetsu but already gone at the start of the game, the plot being the last survivor of it trying to bring it back, but now in Seiken Densetsu 2, it was very alive and at the apex of its power, wrecking havoc all around the world, and this time we were not pitted against a lone survivor but against the entire empire, which made it obvious to me that the story went back in time to tell us the story of the fallen Vandole empire.
So I always thought that Secret of Mana was a prequel to Mystic Quest.
And when Seiken Densetsu was remade as Sword of Mana, this was made even more obvious as Julius was no more a mere survivor of the destroyed Vandole empire but the reincarnation of the emperor Vandole himself slain 20 years ago.
And we witnessed the death of the emperor Vandole in Secret of Mana, didn't we?
Then it is logical to think that Sword of Mana takes place 20 years after Secret of Mana, is it not?
But Sword of Mana hints that the Mana Knight who defeated the Vandole empire was Bogard, so does that mean that Bogard is the boy protagonist of Secret of Mana?
It seems to be confirmed when it is revealed that Bogard is actually the father of Elena, the girl protagonist of Sword of Mana, and her mother was Mana, a mage girl who helped Bogard defeat the Vandole empire, doesn't this story of Elena's parents remind you of something?
A Mana Knight and a mage girl who team up to fight against the Vandole empire, isn't that the story of Secret of Mana?
Then the girl protagonist of Secret of Mana is Mana, the mother of Elena, the girl protagonist of Sword of Mana.
Elena is the daughter of the protagonists of Secret of Mana.

But, in the end of Secret of Mana, the Mana Tree was destroyed, was it not?
So how can it be restored 20 years later in Sword of Mana?
That's a good question, thank you for asking!
To give an answer, who is the Mana Tree in Sword of Mana?
She is Mana, the mother of Elena.
Elena is the daughter of Bogard and Mana.
And I hypothesized that Elena is the daughter of the protagonists of Secret of Mana, did I not?
Which means that after Secret of Mana, the mage girl protagonist fell in love with the Mana Knight protagonist after she was done mourning Dyluck, he impregnated her with Elena, then she turned into the Mana Tree.
How?
Noticed that there is no reference to a Mana Goddess in Secret of Mana whereas there are in Sword of Mana?
Why is that so?
Why the concept of a Mana Goddess is unknown in Secret of Mana then people suddenly remember her in Sword of Mana?
It might be that a Mana Goddess came to the world between Secret of Mana and Sword of Mana.
Maybe a Mana Goddess from another world of mana who noticed that this world of mana was left without a Tree of Mana and came to solve this issue.
She might have helped the mage girl to find suitable people to form the new Mana Clan from Sword of Mana then taught her how to turn herself into a new Mana Tree to restore mana into the world and become a new Mana Goddess.
Then the mage girl did just that.
That confirms the fact that the mother of Elena, who was a mage girl who helped the Mana Knight defeat Vandole, had to turn herself into the new Mana Tree and become the new Mana Goddess because it was destroyed during the Vandole empire war, which is indeed the case in Secret of Mana, so the mother of Elena could very well be the mage girl protagonist from Secret of Mana.

Also, you completely missed a fact in your reasoning about Secret of Mana.
Indeed, you reasoned that Secret of Mana is the only possible last game because the Mana Tree is destroyed and there is no more Mana Maiden left to restore it.
Did you forget that the boy protagonist is the Mana Knight because he is the son of the previous Mana Knight and the last Mana Maiden who was the Mana Tree?
Did you forget that HE IS a son of the Mana Clan?
Doesn't that imply that if he has a daughter, she would be a daughter of the Mana Clan, a new Mana Maiden?
And even if he doesn't have a daughter, if he has only sons, well his sons might have daughters which merely report the restoration of the Mana Tree to one more generation.
The Mana Clan is not gone as long as there is ONE left, they just need to make children to continue the legacy. ;-)

Moreover, you don't make sense because you placed Trials of Mana between Sword of Mana and Secret of Mana while stating that Sword of Mana sets up the last of the Mana Clan then Trials of Mana sets up a way to restore the Mana Tree without the Mana Clan then what about the Mana Clan in Secret of Mana?
Did you completely miss the fact that the Mana Knight protagonist from Secret of Mana is the son of the previous Mana Knight Serin and the Mana Maiden who is now the Mana Tree, which means that ALL 3 OF THE BOY PROTAGONIST AND HIS PARENTS ARE FROM THE MANA CLAN?
So if the Mana Clan is gone after Sword of Mana, then Secret of Mana can only take place BEFORE Sword of Mana and Trials of Mana cannot be between them as, just like you stated, there is no Mana Clan in Trials of Mana.
And it is not that the Mana Clan is gone in Trials of Mana, it is that it didn't exist yet, because the Mana Goddess is still present at the time of Trials of Mana, people know her, whereas Secret of Mana takes place sooooooooo long after Trials of Mana that no one remembers the Mana Goddess, she has long been replaced by the Mana Clan.
So the only logical order is Trials of Mana in the distant past, then Secret of Mana and Sword of Mana in the distant future.

And it is funny that you stated that Sword of Mana sets up the last of the Mana Clan and the final Mana Tree because there is no more Mana Maiden left to restore it and yet you didn't place Sword of Mana as the last game whereas I did. :-3
Moreover, just like I said about Secret of Mana, the Mana Clan is not gone as long as there remains at least ONE to make children and continue the legacy.
In Sword of Mana, both Bogard, Granz and Willy are sons of the Mana Clan so they only need to make children to continue the Mana Clan. ;-)

Moreover, you reasoned that Sword of Mana can only take place before Trials of Mana because there are plenty of elemental spirits in Sword of Mana whereas there is only one per element in Trials of Mana.
Doesn't that make more sense to think that at first, there was only one spirit per element, then they proliferated and filled the world?
The proliferation of elemental spirits further confirms that Sword of Mana takes place AFTER the 8 original elemental spirits proliferated.
And there are still only the 8 original spirits in Secret of Mana which is one generation before Sword of Mana so how to explain their proliferation between Secret of Mana and Sword of Mana?
Well, if a Mana Goddess from another world of mana came to help the protagonists of Secret of Mana build a new Mana Clan and turn the mage girl protagonist into a new Mana Tree to restore mana into this world, maybe she was so efficient that she caused the elemental spirits to proliferate. :-3
Or the fact that the mage girl protagonist was a powerful mage instead of a mere Mana Maiden caused a surge in mana when she turned into the Mana Tree which caused the elemental spirits to proliferate.

You support your reasoning that Sword of Mana takes place before Trials of Mana because in Sword of Mana, there is only one robot while in Trials of Mana, the Magic Kingdom of Altena uses an army of robots and you take this fact as an evidence that the first robot was invented in Sword of Mana then the technology was mass produced in Trials of Mana.
You completely missed a crucial point though, which is that Marshall is NOT the only robot built in Sword of Mana, it is merely the LAST remaining robot and there is an army of robots lying shut down all around the Glass Desert where the Dime Tower where we meet Marshall is located.
We even learn that Marshall was part of an army of warbots built during the reign of Vandole to guard the Dime Tower.
Moreover, Marshall is far more advanced than the machine golems of Altena, which supports my reasoning that Seiken Densetsu 3 takes place long before Seiken Densetsu.

Did you ever notice that there was no reference to a goddess in Seiken Densetsu nor in Seiken Densetsu 2 and the Mana Clan was referenced only in Seiken Densetsu 1 and 2, then was no more referenced?
So the Mana Clan was started sometime between Seiken Densetsu 3 and 2 because there was no Mana Clan yet in Seiken Densetsu 3.
The concept of Mana Goddess was introduced only starting from Seiken Densetsu 3 where we learn that she sealed the Benevodons into Mana Stones then turned into the Mana Tree.
In Seiken Densetsu 1 and 2, there is a Mana Tree but no reference to a goddess, we only know the Mana Clan.
Which means that Seiken Densetsu 1 and 2 take place so long after the Mana Goddess turned into the Mana Tree that no one remembers her while people from Seiken Densetsu 3 still remember her.
Which is further evidences that Seiken Densetsu 3 takes place loooooooooooong before Seiken Densetsu 1 and 2, people from both Seiken Densetsu 1 and 2 have forgotten the Mana Goddess that people from Seiken Densetsu 3 still remember.
So both Seiken Densetsu 1 and 2 can only take place very long after Seiken Densetsu 3.
Now, in the next game developed, Legend of Mana, the Mana Goddess is the original creatress of Fa'Diel before we recreate it ourselves and after we deal with the bad guys, we actually meet a Mana Goddess in the flesh, not a tree, we even fight her as the final boss and slay her in order to purge her from her corruption and allow her to rebirth anew.
In Seiken Densetsu 4, the Tree Maiden Ritzia merges with the Mana Spirit Faye in order to become the new Mana Goddess and restore mana into the world.
I said the NEW Mana Goddess because pay attention to the fact that there ALREADY was a Mana Tree from the start and we know that Mana Tree = Mana Goddess, which means there ALREADY was a Mana Goddess from the start, she merely was dying as the Mana Tree was dying but Ritzia & Faye are NOT the first Mana Goddess because they are NOT the first Mana Tree.

[MaximeMartyr]

You based your reasoning that Dawn of Mana is the first game of the Story of Mana because Square Enix claimed as such, so you looked for evidences of this fact in your analyze of this game.
Now, if you ignore the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ claimed by Square Enix and you objectively analyze Dawn of Mana and try to chronologically place it based only on facts, do you still come to this conclusion?
We know that the Echoes of Mavolia which possessed the Tree Maiden Anise in the first place come from Heroes of Mana so Dawn of Mana can only happen AFTER Heroes of Mana, isn't that logical?
Don't rely on what the developers say because they are inconsistent, they keep changing their mind and contradicting themselves so just ignore them and analyze only the facts, not the claims. ;-)
Based on the story, "Dawn of Mana" doesn't mean "Beginning of Mana" because mana already existed before this game, the story of this game is that the possessed Tree Maiden Anise unleashes the Night of Mavolia then she is defeated and comes the "Dawn of Mana" as in "after the night comes the dawn", you get it?

Then you claimed that Dawn of Mana sets up Fa'Diel and the first Mana Tree.
Well, I already pointed out the fact that there was already a Mana Tree from the start and about Fa'Diel, did you ever compare the world maps of Secret of Mana, Trials of Mana and Dawn of Mana?
They are completely different geographies!
You inferred that the world of Trials of Mana is the same world of Dawn of Mana because some towns share the same names.
However, just compare the world maps and it will come clear to you that they are in fact not the same world.
Moreover, in Legend of Mana, we learn that nine centuries ago, the Great Witch Anise discovered that there are alternate worlds of mana when her mana stones ripped open holes to other worlds, then in Heroes of Mana, she is back, and, aware of the alternate worlds of mana, she sends Echoes of Mavolia to all worlds of mana and we learn that it is these Echoes which possessed the Tree Maiden Anise, which establishes that the Fa'Diel from Dawn of Mana is one of the alternate Fa'Diels, it is not the same Fa'Diel from Trials of Mana.
And the radically different world maps of Trials of Mana and Secret of Mana can be explained by the fact that the war of the Mana Fortress and the Mana Beasts which took place sometime after Trials of Mana and millenniums before Secret of Mana completely ravaged the world and made it unrecognizable.

You invoked 3 reasons to place Legend of Mana after Secret of Mana:
1) Because the opening to the game states that the Mana Tree was burned to the ground.
2) "Sprite = Faerie so the Faeries totally rose against the humans with the help of other humans and defeated the Vandole empire and the Mana Tree was burned to the ground."
3) You stated that "Legend of Mana only fits after Secret of Mana because it is the only game which ends with mana gone forever".
You made 3 mistakes.
1) In Legend of Mana, the Mana Tree was not burned by the Mana Fortress, it was burned during the Holy War of the Mana Tree when Aion, the King of the Faeries, gathered an army and battled the Great Witch Anise and her army of mages, which resulted in the defeat of Anise and the loss of the Mana Tree.
2) Really? You're serious here? "Sprite = Faerie so the Faeries totally rose against the Vandole empire with the help of other humans and defeated it"?
There was ONE sprite who helped the humans to fight against the Vandole empire, how could you ever claim that "the sprites totally rose against the Vandole empire" when a single sprite was involved in the war?
Moreover, the Vandole empire was not involved in any way into the referenced war between faeries and humans because it was a war between Aion, the King of the Faeries and the Great Witch Anise, it was the Holy War of the Mana Tree.
3) Why does Legend of Mana needs to be placed after a game which ends with mana gone forever?
Mana is still very much present in Legend of Mana, I honestly don't get why you thought it was gone forever.
The story of Legend of Mana is that the Mana Goddess created Fa'Diel, then the people of Fa'Diel eventually corrupted the Mana Goddess and the Mana Tree with all their selfishness and she decided to seal Fa'Diel into artifacts and create a hero (or heroine, depends of who you choose to be) to restore it and clean the mess before she eventually requests to be slain in order to be purged herself and rebirth anew along with the Mana Tree.
Legend of Mana deals with the very creation of Fa'Diel so it can only be the first game.
Well, actually there still could be a prior game about the Holy War of the Mana Tree between Aion and Anise which took place nine centuries before Legend of Mana.
But out of the 7 games of the Story of Mana, Legend of Mana is the furthest you can go in the past of Fa'Diel.

You looked for connections between the mana games and you completely overlooked the worst antagonist of the Story of Mana, the greatest enemy of mana itself, the very antithesis of the Mana Goddess: the Great Witch Anise.
The Great Witch Anise wanted to use the power of mana to become a goddess, but because she failed, she turned to the antithesis of mana, the power of Mavolia, and, full of hatred towards mana, started an endless war against mana in all worlds because she had discovered alternate worlds when her experiments with mana ripped open holes to other worlds before the Holy War of the Mana Tree nine centuries before Legend of Mana.
She returns after Legend of Mana in Heroes of Mana where she sends the Echoes of Mavolia to all worlds of mana which possess the Tree Maiden Anise from Dawn of Mana.
Then the possessed Tree Maiden Anise is sealed by her husband Granz in Mavolia for years until she corrupts the Tree Maiden Ritzia who releases her and she possesses her then she unleashes the power of Mavolia to the world and in turn sends her hatred of mana to all worlds of mana which materialized as the Benevodons.
Then she is slain by Keldric and goes in peace with her husband.
However, the Great Witch Anise returned in Heroes of Mana after she was slain before Legend of Mana so, just like Vandole, she is able to reincarnate, and both Vandole and Anise claimed that as long as mana exists, they will return again...
The Great Witch Anise is the antithesis of the Mana Goddess, how could you overlook her when you paid so much attention to the Mana Goddess?

You also completely overlooked the Underworld/Mavolia whereas it is involved in 6 of the 7 games of the Story of Mana!
In Secret of Mana, 3 of Vandole's 4 generals have sold their soul to Mavolia to become powerful Mavoles.
In Trials of Mana, 2 of the 3 antagonist factions are involved with Mavolia.
In Legend of Mana, the Underworld plays a prominent role in the game.
In Sword of Mana, some Mavoles are involved.
In Dawn of Mana, Mavolia is the source of the corruption which turns people into grimslies.
In Heroes of Mana, the Great Witch Anise's goal is to unleash Psi, her own variant of the power of Mavolia, to all worlds of mana to wipe out mana from all worlds.

Heroes of Mana is connected to Dawn of Mana in 2 ways through Anise:
The Benevodons are said to have been sent to this world by the possessed Tree Maiden Anise from Dawn of Mana who sent her hatred of mana to all worlds of mana, so the possessed Tree Maiden Anise is also aware of the alternate worlds of mana, which confirms that she is possessed by the Great Witch Anise who discovered the alternate worlds of mana nine centuries before Legend of Mana and who sent the Echoes of Mavolia from Heroes of Mana who possessed the Tree Maiden Anise years before Dawn of Mana.

Because we know 2 alternate Anise, we know for a fact that the Story of Mana takes place in at least 2 alternate worlds of mana.
And we also know that the alternate worlds of mana are not synchronous because the Great Witch Anise from Heroes of Mana sends the Echoes of Mavolia which possessed the Tree Maiden Anise years before Dawn of Mana however the Benevodons were already present before Heroes of Mana while Heroes of Mana tells us that they were sent to this world by the possessed Tree Maiden Anise, which is a time paradox which can only be explained by the alternate worlds of mana not being synchronous because the Benevodons were sent by the possessed Tree Maiden Anise BEFORE the Great Witch Anise sends the Echoes of Mavolia which possessed her, which implies that a past event in a world of mana can be a future event in another world of mana and vice-versa.

So how to decide a logical order to play the games of the Story of Mana if the alternate worlds of mana are not synchronous?
Well, the only 2 events which connect the alternate worlds of mana so far as when the Great Witch Anise sends the Echoes of Mavolia to all worlds of mana and when the possessed Tree Maiden Anise sends her hatred of mana to all worlds of mana which materialized into Benevodons.
The Benevodons are not involved in the world of the Tree Maiden Anise however the Great Witch Anise is involved in both worlds since she possess the Tree Maiden Anise so I would reason to follow the story of the Great Witch Anise which starts with Legend of Mana, then continues with Heroes of Mana then continues with Dawn of Mana so I would play Dawn of Mana at some point after Heroes of Mana and I would rather follow the entire story of a world before starting the story of another world, so I would play the 5 games of the world of the Great Witch Anise before playing the 2 games of the world of the Tree Maiden Anise, which gives us this order to play the 7 games of the Story of Mana:

I) The world of the Great Witch Anise which spawns 5 games:

1) Legend of Mana (Nine centuries before the events in Legend of Mana, the Great Witch Anise discovered the alternate worlds of mana when her mana stones ripped open holes to other worlds, this is why she is aware of the alternate worlds in Heroes of Mana. Also, in this game, the current ruler of the Underworld which is to become Mavolia is Olbohn who took over after he defeated Aion who was the previous ruler of the Underworld since the Holy War of the Mana Tree, which means that Legend of Mana takes place before the Underworld turned into Mavolia and the Dark Majesty from Trials of Mana became the new ruler of Mavolia so Legend of Mana can only take place BEFORE Trials of Mana and its immediate prequel Heroes of Mana and since the Great Witch Anise from Heroes of Mana sends the Echoes of Mavolia which possessed the Tree Maiden Anise from Dawn of Mana, then Dawn of Mana can only take place AFTER Heroes of Mana, which makes Legend of Mana THE ONLY POSSIBLE first game of the Story of Mana.
Also, in this game, Matilda becomes one of the Seven Wisdoms. She already is from the start one of the Seven Wisdoms in Sword of Mana.)

2) Heroes of Mana (One generation prior to Trials of Mana, the return of the Great Witch Anise from Legend of Mana who sends the Echoes of Mavolia which possessed the Tree Maiden Anise from Dawn of Mana, the Benevodons were already involved, who are said to have been sent to this world by the possessed Tree Maiden Anise from Dawn of Mana.)

3) Trials of Mana (There is no reference to the Vandole empire in Seiken Densetsu 3 even though it is such a big deal in Seiken Densetsu 1 and 2, so that means not only there is no Vandole empire at this time but also that people never heard of it, just like there is no reference to the infamous Mana Fortress which still makes people talk about it millenniums after it was shut down, so it is very likely that Seiken Densetsu 3 takes place before the war of the Mana Fortress as the Mana Fortress and the Vandole empire are yet to come, the war of the Mana Fortress takes place sometime between Seiken Densetsu 3 and 2 and millenniums before the 2, the only unknown data is how much time after the 3? Damn! I really REALLY want to play a good fan-game which takes place several generations after Trials of Mana when a civilization builds the Mana Fortress (most likely the Magic Empire of Altena) and ravages the world with it until the Mana Beasts awaken, get mad, and ravage the world also, and it is up to the protagonist Mana Knight and their party to end it all.)

4) Secret of Mana (Millenniums after the world experienced in Trials of Mana was ravaged by the Mana Fortress and the Mana Beasts and made unrecognizable, no one remembers the Mana Goddess as she has long been replaced by the Mana Clan.)

5) Sword of Mana (20 years after the fall of the Vandole empire which took place in Secret of Mana.)

II) The world of the Tree Maiden Anise which spawns 2 games:

6) Dawn of Mana (The Echoes of Mavolia which possessed the Tree Maiden Anise were sent by the Great Witch Anise from Heroes of Mana so Dawn of Mana and its immediate sequel Children of Mana can only take place AFTER Heroes of Mana but it can also take place at any time after Heroes of Mana so it is complicated to chronologically place it in the Story of Mana since there is no connection between the alternate worlds of mana except the Great Witch Anise who hates mana and wants to erase it from all worlds but she didn't return in any world after Dawn of Mana so there is no more connection between the worlds of mana after Dawn of Mana moreover the worlds of mana are not synchronous so the story of the world of the possessed Tree Maiden Anise can take place at any time after Heroes of Mana.)

7) Children of Mana (Is the direct sequel to Dawn of Mana.)

First, Squaresoft developed Seiken Densetsu to pit us against the last survivor of the fallen Vandole empire who wanted to rebuild it.
Then they developed Seiken Densetsu 2 to make us experience the fall of the Vandole empire and introduce us to the emperor Vandole who wanted the Mana Fortress, a super-weapon built by a previous civilization, which, along with the Mana Beasts, ravaged the world millenniums ago.
Then they developed Seiken Densetsu 3 to make us experience the world before the war of the Mana Fortress which radically changed the world.
The experience missing is the war of the Mana Fortress proper, ever since I played Secret of Mana, I always wanted to experience the war of the Mana Fortress, the story of the Mana Knight who shut down the Mana Fortress with the Mana Sword millenniums ago, but Squaresoft never made it and Square Enix is only good at ruining everything out of insane greed so I'm still hoping that a fan-game will eventually be developed about it.
Then they developed Legend of Mana to make us experience the very creation of the world through the use of artifacts, we create the towns and the dungeons ourselves before we explore them.
Then after Squaresoft merged with Enix and became the infamous franchises-killer Square Enix, they developed Seiken Densetsu 4 at the same time as they subcontracted Children of Mana to Nex Entertainment, as an effort to continue the Seiken Densetsu franchise into a brand new world.
Then they subcontracted Heroes of Mana to Brownie Brown who previously was subcontracted to remake the first Seiken Densetsu into Sword of Mana as a last effort to continue the Seiken Densetsu franchise before they decided to remake the old games instead.
Ah and Square Enix also tried to make money out of the Seiken Densetsu franchise in 3 mobile games which all ended in epic failures: first Friends of Mana, then Circle of Mana, and at last Rise of Mana.
After Square Enix shut down Rise of Mana, they basically stated that they will find another way to make money out of Seiken Densetsu.
And they did! They have been re-releasing remakes of all the Seiken Densetsu games!

Ah, by the way, I don't claim that my logic is flawless because I am trying to create consistency in a chaotic universe, I am trying to find logical connections in 7 games which all contradict each other so I don't claim that I have the perfect reasoning, I can only propose the most possibly logical reasoning to make order in chaos while there are flaws to be found since it is impossible to perfectly order this mess of Mana, thank you. ;-3

[mdcpaladin]

a huge and VERY good read. love it. i admit i only played secret of mana as a kid and have wanted for a long time to play the other mana games

[MaximeMartyr]

Diposting pertama kali oleh maxdadbod:

a huge and VERY good read. love it. i admit i only played secret of mana as a kid and have wanted for a long time to play the other mana games

Then now you know the most logical order to play all of the 7 games of the Story of Mana even though there will be inconsistencies because the developers keep changing their minds and contradict themselves, if not flawless, at least you will experience the most possibly logical chronology, enjoy the ride! ;-)

Oh, but before you play, I have to prepare you to make sure that you get the most possible enjoyable experience:

When you play Legend of Mana, BE SURE TO FOLLOW A WALKTHROUGH because this game lets you free to create the world as you please and deal with the events in any order you want HOWEVER if you don't follow a specific order, you will be screwed because some events will become unavailable, you still can finish the game but your experience will be incomplete if you don't experience ALL of the events.
You don't need to actually read the walkthrough, you only need to know in which order to deal with the events and in which order and how to place the artifacts so just follow the list order of events and the order and placement of artifacts and discover the rest by yourself in the game. ;-)
Here is the perfect walkthrough:
https://legendofmana.info/walkthrough/

When you play Trials of Mana, make sure to pair Kevin with Charlotte, Duran with Angela, and Hawk with Lise.
Let me explain, Trials of Mana is divided into 3 plots each involving an antagonist faction and a specific pair of hero and heroine.
Indeed, in Trials of Mana, there are 3 antagonist factions and 6 heroes and heroines.
The game lets you choose whoever 3 protagonists out of the 6 when you start and the first protagonist you choose determines which of the 3 plots you will be involved in.
You are really free to choose whoever 3 protagonists you want HOWEVER you will experience significantly more interactions between your protagonists if the first 2 protagonists you choose are a pair involved into the same plot.
Charlotte and Kevin are involved in the same plot, Angela and Duran are involved in the same plot, and Hawk and Lise are involved in the same plot.
So whoever the 3rd protagonist you choose, make sure the first 2 protagonists you choose are one of the 3 pairs.

[mdcpaladin]

advice taken. i look forward to this series again :)

[MaximeMartyr]

Diposting pertama kali oleh maxdadbod:

advice taken. i look forward to this series again :)

Enjoy the ride! ;-)

[mdcpaladin]

Diposting pertama kali oleh MaximeMartyr:

Diposting pertama kali oleh maxdadbod:

advice taken. i look forward to this series again :)

Enjoy the ride! ;-)

before i do tho, is the combat much like how i remember it in secret of mana? still one of my all time favorite video games. many great memories

[MaximeMartyr]

Diposting pertama kali oleh maxdadbod:

Diposting pertama kali oleh MaximeMartyr:

Enjoy the ride! ;-)

before i do tho, is the combat much like how i remember it in secret of mana? still one of my all time favorite video games. many great memories

Well, in Trials of Mana, you no more have to wait for your attack power to charge up, now your attack power builds up as you hit enemies, also you no more improve your efficiency with weapons and spells by using them, you improve only when you level up with xp, Children of Mana is a dungeon-crawler, which allows you to wield 2 weapons at once using 2 buttons, Dawn of Mana's gameplay is based on Kingdom Hearts, and Heroes of Mana is a RTS, does that answer your question? :-3

[mdcpaladin]

Diposting pertama kali oleh MaximeMartyr:

Diposting pertama kali oleh maxdadbod:

before i do tho, is the combat much like how i remember it in secret of mana? still one of my all time favorite video games. many great memories

Well, in Trials of Mana, you no more have to wait for your attack power to charge up, now your attack power builds up as you hit enemies, also you no more improve your efficiency with weapons and spells by using them, you improve only when you level up with xp, Children of Mana is a dungeon-crawler, which allows you to wield 2 weapons at once using 2 buttons, Dawn of Mana plays like a Kingdom Hearts, and Heroes of Mana is a RTS, does that answer your question? :-3

ya lol